Using the Crimson Slaughter Supplement

[bjoluemblem]

All right, it seems like while the Crimson Slaughter book may not be what everyone hoped for, it's actually decent IMO. I'm looking at it as a viable way to improve CSM on the tabletop. First off, the warlord traits are meh, not really going to go to the effort of making these guys my main detachment because of that. As to the relics though, that's where the money is. I'm going to throw down on the relics, I'd like to make some friendly discussion on how to make this work, I'm not looking to suffer through the hate the CSMs are getting right now. Not worth my time, and, honestly, probably not worth any of yours either. Let's have some fun with this! The complete rules can be found by browsing the interwebz, easy enough to find if you look I'd guess Or you could just do what I did and throw down some change for the rules. Anyway...

 

RELICS

 

1 I can see a use for the mace, might be a good way to get past leadership penalties for the 6" bubble. It'd be good for my horde CSMs I think.

 

2 I'm not really a fan of the sword, too much effort getting into melee for this to be appropriate. Would be hilarious in HtH against Tau though :D One Firewarrior squad later, you can ID a Riptide. Worth its points in gold then, and pretty much only then. Kind of a bummer for 6 attacks maximum. I could see this on a Khorne lord in a Land Raider. Chase down some flank units, build up kills, then murder the big stuff.

 

3 The Slaughterer's Horns would be great on a melee lord that isn't marked with Khorne, since most of the buffs are granted by the blood god anyway. Interesting use to get a bulked up Tzeentch melee lord into combat. Pretty much the same cost as a Necron overlord kitted the same way, debatable for me, I do like my 2+ (3++) units regardless.

 

4 Banemonkey psyker thing. MONEY. Those crazy imperial monkeys can die to my prescienced army. I like the sound of finally being able to twin-link a forgefiend, or a 20 man squad of CSMs. It's essentially super cheap as the mandatory spell familiar is already part of this relic. Divination, baby. I'm probably going to take a sorcerer with this plus a squad of cultists and a baledrake in every non-fluffy list I run. He'll probably even make it into my fluffy lists anyway! Debatably one of the best psykers the CSM have access to now. Thanks, GW, I appreciate it greatly.

 

5 Epic win armor. In a non-sorcery list, this will be my relic of choice. Another way to get a 2+ (3++) with Sigil and MoT, or just a beatstick lord that gets a 2+ save without terminator armor.

 

6 POSSESSED HQ! Interesting. Fluffy yet fun, I'd happily run this guy with a giant blob of possessed to be crazy. Not a death star for sure at that point, but funny. 500ish points for possessed, another 150ish for this guy. And a divination sorcerer on a bike. Yay!

 

I'm hoping to foster some discussion on builds/list ideas or just general thoughts. I'm trying to make the best of what we've got, and all things considered, this is a pretty epic way to get some much needed USRs and special rules into CSMs.

[RolandTHTG]

For another bonus, don't forget the Prefered Enemy Chosen squad. 10 points on the champion in order to have him give the squad PE. Plasma Chosen just got even better, and even melee chosen got a boost. I honestly think this might be one of the best upgrades in the list.

[Hellrender]

I actually prefer the sword over the mace. MoN, 2+ armour, bike, SoC, and slaughterers horns. 6 attacks on the charge with S5. If he kills something with Hammer of Wrath, it is S6 from there on :)

 

I'm actually thinking of a possessed sorcerer. Sounds like a decent option to give him fearless. If the Possessed work out (will have to playtest) i can see him going with divination or Biomancy in a possessed unit. Might be a bit much of an investment.. but might be fun :)

[the jeske]

nurgle lord with CS armor on bike fist/claw bike .

divi sorc bike force ax

3x10 cultists

2xhelldrakes

MoN oblits

Ally

Sorc ax bike

1x10 cultists

mon oblits

 

 

ah and bikers . Forgot to add csm to my list.

Same list as now only with better relics . If I remember right , one doesn't have to roll on the codex warlord traits and roll on the BRB table . Does not make them uber [unless the IWND +2/++4 nurgle lord becomes scoring].

[RolandTHTG]

Just saw it pointed out on TalkWargaming that the rule giving fear says "every model", which means all our vehicles cause fear.
Non-marine assaults a rhino, trying to get the last hull point off? "Oh, you failed the fear test? You only hit me on 4+" That, and hellbrutes can also cause fear, if you want to field them.

[arkagl]

large squad of possessed in a Storm Eagle seems like fun haha.

[Nehekhare]

so the mace is just the regular mace that the apostle comes with and upgrades his zealotry to 6" but is also +30% of his cost?

 

disappointing.

[Excessus]

Heck, even cultists cause fear then...

[crimsonhand]

I really like this book. I'm all in.

[Minsc]

Be'lakor will be my Warlord most of the time when I play CS. Not only his he a good force-multiplier in himself, but his Warlord trait has nice synergy with the CS-army.

 

Add a ML(3) Divination Sorcerer ontop of this, and my HQ-choices are set.

 

I don't have the book yet, but if it's possible, I might actually take a Nurgle-Sorcerer on a Palaquin with the 2+ armour. Granted, he'll only have 2 divination powers, but being T5 W4 2+/4++ he'll be hard to kill.

[Valaskjalf]

I also dont have the supplement yet, so help me out if Im wrong on this speculation but:

 

If you put the lord on a bike/MoN/Sigil and give him the relics to make him Daemon and 2+ IWND along with Soul Siphon, does that mean with allied Daemons/Grimoire you could potentially end up with a T6 2+/2++ 4W IWND biker lord who could potentially be shrouded as well? Im thinking Im wrong, but if not...hot damn.

[Sception]

so the mace is just the regular mace that the apostle comes with and upgrades his zealotry to 6" but is also +30% of his cost?

 

disappointing.

 

Yeah, I think people are getting a bit excited about the apostle getting 'something', and are forgetting to ask exactly what that something is and how much it costs.  Considering that the apostle is a pretty bad deal to begin with, the extra cost isn't going to help him any, it doesn't improve his personal abilities at all, and a 6" zealous aura isn't exactly worth an HQ slot, imo, expecially not with tricked out lords, divination sorcerers, and Be'Lakor contesting space.  Frankly, I'd still take a warpsmith over him.

[Iron_Within]

Against Non-Marines, Belakor with an all fear causing army would be like Daemons, yeah sure Fear doesn't always work, but suddenly they have -1 to it (if you choose, but I'm not sure you would) and if they fail any test Belakor gets more power.

 

Divination on a Forgefiend is suddenly viable (in not super competitive enviroments). I think the CS list may make a half decent shooty army with divination  preferred enemy on the Chosen (read: half decent against something other than cheesed up WAAC Taudar, because :cuss: those guys).

 

I know this might be out there, but can a CS list take the normal CSM special characters? I'm not thinking Khârn with Possessed for lols or Chosen troops with preferred enemy due to Abbaddon oh no....

[Sception]

I still haven't seen the book or gotten the exact wording on the vets restriction and the initial note on the supplement being a modification to the parent book.  Whether they can take special parent book special characters, and in particular parent book special characters that have the veterans of the long war rule, is dependent on the specific wording of those sections.

 

The preferred enemy is still just on one chosen unit, and abaddon and chosen are both super costly, so I'm not sure that'll go anywhere meaningful.  I think if you're doing chosenspam, you're still better off going with the black legion book, where the vet tax will still be considerably cheaper than the cost of buying abaddon.

 

Kharne with CS possessed may not be the best choice, as he might hamper their movement on turns when they roll beasts.

[Smurfalypse]

I also dont have the supplement yet, so help me out if Im wrong on this speculation but:

 

If you put the lord on a bike/MoN/Sigil and give him the relics to make him Daemon and 2+ IWND along with Soul Siphon, does that mean with allied Daemons/Grimoire you could potentially end up with a T6 2+/2++ 4W IWND biker lord who could potentially be shrouded as well? Im thinking Im wrong, but if not...hot damn.

 

Cannot ally with Daemons from the CS Codex, it only allows Battle Brothers with CSM and nothing else as far as I can see :P

 

Also, this Codex is pretty friggin' decent IMO. Cultists with Fear is pretty sweet I have to admit, also vehicles getting it is pretty sweet as it may make them harder to kill vs some things. Not a huge deal, but certainly nifty and cool.

 

My first thought with this Codex is to drop all of my Daemon Allies (cant have Daemon Allies with CS anyhow) and do CS as primary and CSM as secondary. 

 

CS Lord - Bike, MoN, Blade of the Relentless, Slaughterer's Horns, Daemonheart, Prophet of the Voices, 4++.

There is no rule that says you can only take one Relic, and since only one is a weapon you can take all that other nonsense on your single Lord. Now he cannot join a unit cause he has the Slaves to the Voices USR, but he is a man missile. T6, A4, Rage, Furious Charge, Hammer of Wrath, 2+/4++, IWND, and a Weapon that gets to be insane by 5 kills (pretty easy as you just throw him into an infantry unit and go to town). Then he has a random ability you roll up each turn, can be Shrouded, Beast (good cause this would allow him to ignore difficult/dangerous terrain and he can go up levels in a building), and 3++/Rending. All of this is really good, though he will ride solo. DO NOT MAKE HIM YOUR WARLORD! Under 250pts total.

 

Then probably x2 Sorcerers, one with the Divination and throw them both into a Biker Squad that has MoN. 

That is Prescience and x4 rolls on Telepathy or Biomancy. 

[Sception]

As a supplement, it shares the parent book's allies matrix except where it says otherwise.

[Smurfalypse]

I still haven't seen the book or gotten the exact wording on the vets restriction and the initial note on the supplement being a modification to the parent book.  Whether they can take special parent book special characters, and in particular parent book special characters that have the veterans of the long war rule, is dependent on the specific wording of those sections.

 

The preferred enemy is still just on one chosen unit, and abaddon and chosen are both super costly, so I'm not sure that'll go anywhere meaningful.  I think if you're doing chosenspam, you're still better off going with the black legion book, where the vet tax will still be considerably cheaper than the cost of buying abaddon.

 

Kharne with CS possessed may not be the best choice, as he might hamper their movement on turns when they roll beasts.

 

The upgrades from the CS book specifically say stuff like "When choosing a CS detachment one unit of Chosen". All the stuff is like that, though it also says "A CS army is chosen using the army list presented in the Codex: CSM. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used in addition to those found in Codex: CSM.

 

As a supplement, it shares the parent book's allies matrix except where it says otherwise.

 

Does it? Where does it say that in rules?

Not being snarky, I honestly want to know cause I would 100% use CS as my primary if that is the case.

 

Here is what it says in the CS Codex.

 

"Allies

A CS detachment can ally with a Codex: CSM detachment as Battle Brothers (and vice versa)."

[Valaskjalf]

As a supplement, it shares the parent book's allies matrix except where it says otherwise.

Hmm that would be really cool if someone can clarify this. I assume the BL supplement doesnt force any restrictions in this regard? Would still love to ally in my GUO with Grimoire/Biomancy as I dont need any heralds/LOC for Divination anymore...

[Smurfalypse]

 

As a supplement, it shares the parent book's allies matrix except where it says otherwise.

Hmm that would be really cool if someone can clarify this. I assume the BL supplement doesnt force any restrictions in this regard? Would still love to ally in my GUO with Grimoire/Biomancy as I dont need any heralds/LOC for Divination anymore...

 

The BL Codex says this.

 

"ALLIES

In addition to following the Allies Matrix for Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Black Legion detachments and Codex: Chaos Space Marines detachments may ally together, treating each other as Battle Brothers"

[hornywingythingy]

Once I have some money to buy the dex, I'm jumping on this bandwagon! ;)

[Slave to Darkness]

I also dont have the supplement yet, so help me out if Im wrong on this speculation but:

If you put the lord on a bike/MoN/Sigil and give him the relics to make him Daemon and 2+ IWND along with Soul Siphon, does that mean with allied Daemons/Grimoire you could potentially end up with a T6 2+/2++ 4W IWND biker lord who could potentially be shrouded as well? Im thinking Im wrong, but if not...hot damn.

Cannot ally with Daemons from the CS Codex, it only allows Battle Brothers with CSM and nothing else as far as I can see

id have taken it as 'codex crimson slaughter uses the chaos dex as the basis for, well, everything, so can ally with daemons, looking at the allies chart chaos marines cant ally with chaos marines, yet this ruling says you can, its informing you that you can do something that the allies matrix says isnt doable. so technically crimson slaughter cant ally with black legion, as it doesnt state 'can ally with codex csm and codex bl'. as its basically the codex dex used with some extra rules it says you can ally with yourself, id say you can ally with daemons. hope this post makes sense, my minds on more important things atm :/

[Smurfalypse]

I also dont have the supplement yet, so help me out if Im wrong on this speculation but:

If you put the lord on a bike/MoN/Sigil and give him the relics to make him Daemon and 2+ IWND along with Soul Siphon, does that mean with allied Daemons/Grimoire you could potentially end up with a T6 2+/2++ 4W IWND biker lord who could potentially be shrouded as well? Im thinking Im wrong, but if not...hot damn.

Cannot ally with Daemons from the CS Codex, it only allows Battle Brothers with CSM and nothing else as far as I can see

id have taken it as 'codex crimson slaughter uses the chaos dex as the basis for, well, everything, so can ally with daemons, looking at the allies chart chaos marines cant ally with chaos marines, yet this ruling says you can, its informing you that you can do something that the allies matrix says isnt doable. so technically crimson slaughter cant ally with black legion, as it doesnt state 'can ally with codex csm and codex bl'. as its basically the codex dex used with some extra rules it says you can ally with yourself, id say you can ally with daemons. hope this post makes sense, my minds on more important things atm :/

You kinda contradicted yourself there a bit.

"so technically crimson slaughter cant ally with black legion, as it doesnt state 'can ally with codex csm and codex bl'"

But then it does not say that you can ally with Daemons, nor does it say that you use the CSM ally matrix to choose allies (like the Black Legion one does). It specifically states what you are allowed to ally with. SO "technically" they can only ally with Codex: CSM as it says in their allies section.

Just saying, you are swinging it one way but not the other.

[Tenebris]

If things go as planned, I will field Crimson Slaughter as main (just for the rules, couldn't care less for the warband though their fluff is nice, childish, but nice, it is clear who is the target audience), Chaos Daemons as ally and hopefully a Hellbrute formation to spice things up, that or Be'Lakor for we speak of the same amount of points. Though I doubt I will field Possessed, they do not strike me as much useful. And in all sincerity I am forced to field the Crimson Slaughter since I can really use some Divination, especially in my meta with all those shooty armies I have to face, that and the blasted Knights, but like it or not I have to dedicate 300+ points in every army to deal with them, that and with the dreadful Escalation.

[Smurfalypse]

So was going over everything again and noticed that GWs facebook page it was brought up that they used CSM ally matrix by one of their people.

Then going over to Warseer someone brought up a really good and defining point.

 

At the top of the Warbands of the Crimson Slaughter rules page it says

"A CS army is chosen using th earmy list presented in Codex: CSM. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used IN ADDITION to those found in Codex: CSMs."

 

The allies statement is below this so it is just in addition to CSM. I was wrong and admit my defeat :P

Also, I am super happy.

[daboarder]

A note on the VotLW:

 

It specifies that only plague marines, khorne bezerkers, and noise marines may take VOTLW.

 

HOWEVER the wording is clear that it means only those unit can buy it, and units that already have it (thousand sons, and the special characters) are fine.