Using the Crimson Slaughter Supplement

[Forté]

Dumb question. But can CS ally with daemons? The suppliment only states CSM but you take your list ad if you are using CSM but with the new relics instead and the other new rules.

[Dallas Drake]

Well on one hand the CS supplement does not say you can ally with Daemons but does say you can ally with CSMs. On the other hand, I've heard supplements go off their parent codex allies charts (no evidence for this, just heard it). So, it's a confusing one. Personally I'm going to assume not since in my mind GW would have said CS can ally with CSM and Daemons in the CS supplement and not just CSM.

[Kol Saresk]

Dumb question. But can CS ally with daemons? The suppliment only states CSM but you take your list ad if you are using CSM but with the new relics instead and the other new rules.

So was going over everything again and noticed that GWs facebook page it was brought up that they used CSM ally matrix by one of their people.

Then going over to Warseer someone brought up a really good and defining point.

 

At the top of the Warbands of the Crimson Slaughter rules page it says

"A CS army is chosen using th earmy list presented in Codex: CSM. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used IN ADDITION to those found in Codex: CSMs."

 

The allies statement is below this so it is just in addition to CSM. I was wrong and admit my defeat :P

Also, I am super happy.

[Forté]

Cheers Kol.

[ChaosReigns]

Is there a summary anywhere on this forum of all the additions Crimson Slaughter makes to the rules? I'm curious to see what all this supplement brings to the table, so to speak.

[daboarder]

So, as a Word Bearers player I'm definitely running Possessed as troops.

 

Question is how are people thinking of running Possessed CSMs? My first thought was Mark of Slaanesh and Aura of Excess, but that makes them really expensive (325 points for a 10 man unit), it does, however, give you quite a tough unit.

 

Basic saves of 3+ 5++ 5+FNP or 3++ 5+FNP

 

A 3++ with a 5+FNP is almost as good as a 2++ (0.77 v. 0.83)

 

If you get the shrouded & are in 4+ cover then you're looking at 2+ cover and a 5+FNP which is (0.88)

 

MoS is mathematical better than MoN. In fact against the likes of weapons that don't really care about T5 (plasma etc) or AP3 it makes them quite a bit tougher.

 

Also, I5 in combat can be quite a nice boon since it means they'll be hitting before a lot of likewise units (that is unless they've charged through/into cover which sadly beasts still hit at I1 for (why?).

 

Down side of Icon of Excess is it can be sniped and it is pricey on an already over-costed unit.

 

I'm also thinking of how a ML3 Divination/Telepathy/Slaanesh Sorcerer could boost this unit.

 

Anyone else put any thought into this?

 

Dallas

If your running them with MoS then consider a lord on steed with the possessed relic.

 

give the unit outflank

[BitsHammer]

Is there a summary anywhere on this forum of all the additions Crimson Slaughter makes to the rules? I'm curious to see what all this supplement brings to the table, so to speak.

I'll do you one better, here's the whole supplement covered: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/03/new-release-codex-supplement-crimson.html

[Kilofix]

Just wondering about other possibilities;

 

Lord with Terminator armor, Prophet of the Voices and one of the Marks.

 

Does that mean you would be able to Deep Strike him with no Scatter on to a Chaos Daemon Icon (like an Icon carrying Plague Drone)?

[BitsHammer]

Just wondering about other possibilities;

 

Lord with Terminator armor, Prophet of the Voices and one of the Marks.

 

Does that mean you would be able to Deep Strike him with no Scatter on to a Chaos Daemon Icon (like an Icon carrying Plague Drone)?

More or less (I think it's a reduced scatter, not no scatter, but I'd have to double check my Daemons book...if I could find it). The Lord would be stuck solo out in the open like that though.

 

I'm thinking a Lord with the Relentless Blade, Daemonheart, MoK on a Juggernaught in a unit of Spawn all having Invisible cast on them by Be'Lakor whenever they're they're not in combat would be hilarious.

 

Especially against a Tau gunline. You can't overwatch Invisible units.

 

EDIT: That was wrong, I misremembered it. They'd have Stealth and Shrouded though which would help the unit cross the board.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Cast Invisible on a Rhino with Dirge caster, put it close to the Tau gunline, admire the face of the Tau player whne you anounce that he can't overwatch...

 

Also something i recently noticed, Tau exo suits, can only Overwatch with one of their weapons, not two.

 

the upgrade that permit them to shoot two weapons, only works in the shooting phase.

[BitsHammer]

Slayer le Boucher, on 16 Mar 2014 - 21:46, said:

Cast Invisible on a Rhino with Dirge caster, put it close to the Tau gunline, admire the face of the Tau player whne you anounce that he can't overwatch...

 

Also something i recently noticed, Tau exo suits, can only Overwatch with one of their weapons, not two.

 

the upgrade that permit them to shoot two weapons, only works in the shooting phase.

Oh that is evil. An Invisible Land Raider with a Dirge Caster would have a bigger footprint (and keep more units from Overwatching) of course, but unless we go FW to get away from the ol' Godhammer style as it's really not that effective. Though FW does give us the Spartan so it's not -all- bad if you go that route.

 

And yes, that bit with the Tau is something people often overlook or forget about. It's one of those important things to keep track of for sure.

 

EDIT: I just realized the Argent Shroud symbol I have for an avatar is the same basic symbol that Crimson Slaughter uses, just different colors. Spiffy.

[totgeboren]

 

 

"A CS army is chosen using th earmy list presented in Codex: CSM. It

 

also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that CAN be

 

used in addition to those found in Codex: CSMs."

Sigh GW doesn't understand the implication of such wording . 1 interweb on that some dude says that becuse of this CS can use stuff like csm dex relics etc , because it doesn't specify which rules you can't use .

 

 

I think you highlighted the wrong word, so I changed it. The way it is written makes it so that if I play using the CS codex, I can use any of the seven supplemental rules presented under Warbands of the Crimson Slaughter. So I could choose to use Renegades of the Dark Millenium (no VotLW), or choose not to use that rule.

 

I don't think that is the intent, as I assume the idea is that you use all the special rules or none of them, but it does not specify that you actually have to use all or none. I was a bit happy about that first, since I don't like the new Possessed rules, but one second later I realised it would make no sense at all if that was actually the intent of the rules.

[Forté]

 

 

 

 

 

"A CS army is chosen using th earmy list presented in Codex: CSM. It

 

also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that CAN be

 

used in addition to those found in Codex: CSMs."

Sigh GW doesn't understand the implication of such wording . 1 interweb on that some dude says that becuse of this CS can use stuff like csm dex relics etc , because it doesn't specify which rules you can't use .

 

I think you highlighted the wrong word, so I changed it. The way it is written makes it so that if I play using the CS codex, I can use any of the seven supplemental rules presented under Warbands of the Crimson Slaughter. So I could choose to use Renegades of the Dark Millenium (no VotLW), or choose not to use that rules.

 

I don't think that is the intent, as I assume the idea is that you use all the special rules or none of them, but it does not specify that you actually have to use all or none. I was a bit happy about that first, since I don't like the new Possessed rules, but one second later I realised it would make no sense at all if that was actually the intent of the rules.

But you know someone will try it stating RAW. I hate little

[Kol Saresk]

But you know someone will try it stating RAW. I hate little like that.

The only people who don't, are the ones who do it.

[Dark Disciple]

Dumb question. But can CS ally with daemons? The suppliment only states CSM but you take your list ad if you are using CSM but with the new relics instead and the other new rules.

I cross checked this with the Black Legion supplement. It looks like Crimson Slaughter can only ally with CSMs as the Black Legion rules specifically call out that they use the CSM allies matrix and can ally with CSM and Daemons as battle brothers. Its a bit of a shame but keeps in line with the daemon war background.

[the jeske]

But you know someone will try it stating RAW. I hate little like that.

The only people who don't, are the ones who do it.

The only way to not play the game RAW is to play it with made ad hoc made up rules. I have yet to see a normal country were law/rules works like that.

[Forté]

 

 

Dumb question. But can CS ally with daemons? The suppliment only states CSM but you take your list ad if you are using CSM but with the new relics instead and the other new rules.

I cross checked this with the Black Legion supplement. It looks like Crimson Slaughter can only ally with CSMs as the Black Legion rules specifically call out that they use the CSM allies matrix and can ally with CSM and Daemons as battle brothers. Its a bit of a shame but keeps in line with the daemon war background.

As others have stated before. The CS extra rules are in addition to those in CSM so would use the CSM allies but also have CSM added to that list as it isn't stated in the CSM codex.

[Dammeron]

In conjunction with a Chaos Space Marine allied force or Tzeentchian daemons, it would be excellent to represent a "pure" Thousand Sons force, and by pure I mean: a force representative of those who have benefited from Magnus's gene seed following the Rubric of Ahriman. Bear in mind, the sorcerers of the Thousand Sons still carry it; it isn't a stretch to concoct some fluff as to how some amongst the legion or its offshoots have attempted to create new battle brothers from what little stock they have. These battle brothers would, of course, suffer from the same gene curse as the original Thousand Sons; a fact aptly represented by the Crimson Slaughter Possessed with the Mark of Tzeentch, possibly led by a sorcerer with The Prophet of Voices and Balestar of Mannon upgrades. The allied detachment could consist of some Thousand Sons units with a sorcerer who carries the Scrolls of Magnus.

 

Similarly, one could easily use it to represent those portions of The Black Legion which have given themselves over to possession.

 

Lots and lots of possibilities here.

[Kol Saresk]

Well from what we see in The Masters, Bidding, a new Thousand Son recruited from their slave stock describes his training a bit and looks to be perfectly normal.

 

So the official nackground seems to say "Yes they recruit. Yes the Rubric fixed the gene-seed. Yes those who little or no psychic power were turned into the Rubric Marines."

 

Personal interpretation of the background of course. Feel free to ignore.

[Smurfalypse]

Is there a summary anywhere on this forum of all the additions Crimson Slaughter makes to the rules? I'm curious to see what all this supplement brings to the table, so to speak.

 

Played in a 24 man RTT yesterday and ended up winning with Crimson Slaughter/Daemon Allies. Gonna post my battle reports up later today (snow day) to give folks exact ideas of the differences.

 

Some minor points are that a Chaos Lord pumped up with a pile of the Relics is an absolute beast, like people were declining challenges because they know what would happen. The Sorcerer's access to Divination helped in a few games as I would Prescience my Horrors and downed a few Necron Flyers. Cultists having fear actually came into play a couple of times and helped them win combat vs some Eldar Jetbikes.

Mostly though it was the CS Relics that did it in, getting 2+ and IWND is big time on the Lord.

[Smurfalypse]

 

Dumb question. But can CS ally with daemons? The suppliment only states CSM but you take your list ad if you are using CSM but with the new relics instead and the other new rules.

I cross checked this with the Black Legion supplement. It looks like Crimson Slaughter can only ally with CSMs as the Black Legion rules specifically call out that they use the CSM allies matrix and can ally with CSM and Daemons as battle brothers. Its a bit of a shame but keeps in line with the daemon war background.

 

You really need to read the CS Codex closer or at least the entire thread before you make comments like this :P

As has been said three or four times now, the "Allies" statement in the CS codex is under the rules section for them and says "Use the following rules below IN ADDITION to the ones found in the CSM Codex"

 

I missed it the first time I read it too and argued against it, then someone pointed that out and it is fairly clear. Just read this thread.

[Hellrender]

I wonder how good a Lord with possessed, and the blade relic would be, with a unit of possessed. He is relatively cheap. 

That said, i especially wonder how these possessed perform

[Kol Saresk]

Hellrender, on 17 Mar 2014 - 14:44, said:

I wonder how good a Lord with possessed, and the blade relic would be, with a unit of possessed. He is relatively cheap.

That said, i especially wonder how these possessed perform

Throw in the Daemonheart, and maybe even the Slaughterhorns, you can bypass the MoK and get a 2+ Save and It Will Not Die! Get lucky and roll that 3++ and Rending, and that's a challenge you won't have to worry about. Although, if I do my math right, this will make him about 170 points. Still, might be worth it.

[Hezirah]

How much is Possessed upgrade for lord compared to mark of tzeencth  + sigil ?

[Hellrender]

10 points cheaper. but also a lot worse inv save.