Using the Crimson Slaughter Supplement

[Dallas Drake]

I'm going with:

 

Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Slaanesh, Prophet of Voices, Daemonheart, The Blade of the Relentless, & Steed of Slaanesh.

 

Clocks in at under 200 points & give me 5A @ I6 with a 2+ IWND & 3++/5++ 5+FNP (plus his HoW attack at I10). Once he bops a few gribbles he'll be running around at S6 with AP2 & maybe even ID. Going to stick him in a unit of 15 possessed with MoS and IoE. Once he's a beatstick he can leave the possessed & go hunt whatever he likes. It's the I6 that I think is awesome, like the poster above said, who is going to want to fight that?

 

 

Cheers to daboarder for the idea of a Steed!

 

Dallas

 

For a further few points investment he can be made S7 with 6A (Slaughter's Horns).

[Scribe]

So, multiple relics per character, thats a thing now? Dust off the old Spineshiver, Skull JP guy.

[daboarder]

yeah thats a thing, undoubtedly a thing

 

as to the slaanesh lords, I kinda prefer them on a steed with the skull and spineshiver.....but thats just me

[daboarder]

you know what could be really interesting?

 

A dark apostle in a servants of decay/slaughter/ruin list....really combat that low I

 

OR a Dark apostly kicking around with a Straken blob...combat guard?

[Kilofix]

yeah thats a thing, undoubtedly a thing

 

as to the slaanesh lords, I kinda prefer them on a steed with the skull and spineshiver.....but thats just me

 

Does the Codex not say REPLACE an existing weapon with a Chaos Artifact?

 

But I may be wrong, I don't have it in front of me.

[daboarder]

It straight up has krannon packing 3 of the damned things. you cannot argue with that

[BitsHammer]

 

yeah thats a thing, undoubtedly a thing

 

as to the slaanesh lords, I kinda prefer them on a steed with the skull and spineshiver.....but thats just me

 

Does the Codex not say REPLACE an existing weapon with a Chaos Artifact?

 

But I may be wrong, I don't have it in front of me.

For CS, the Crozius replaces a weapon, nothing else does, not even the Relentless Blade.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

yeah thats a thing, undoubtedly a thing

 

as to the slaanesh lords, I kinda prefer them on a steed with the skull and spineshiver.....but thats just me

Does the Codex not say REPLACE an existing weapon with a Chaos Artifact?

 

But I may be wrong, I don't have it in front of me.

The Codex literally says:

 

"A model can replace one weapon with one of the following. Only one of each Chaos Artefact may be taken per army."

 

RAI is as long as you have a weapon to be replaced, you could load up on as many Artefacts as you wanted.

 

Rules-lawyering-nitpicking was you could only take one Artefact per character.

 

BUT, there are no special characters in the Crimson Slaughter Supplement. So what it does is list the "unique characters" as what base unit they are, and what upgrades are needed to make that character.

 

And for Kranon the Relentless, it says you need a Chaos Lord with the Blade of the Relentless, Slaughterhorns, Daemonheart, a plasma pistol and sigil of corruption. Which means, RAI was right.

[BitsHammer]

To add what Kol is saying, Abbadon has two relics of his own as well. So even in the main codex the arguement of "only 1 per model" falls apart.

 

The only codex that actualy limits it to "one relic per model" is the Adepta Sororitas codex.

[Noctus Cornix]

I don't think Abbadon counts, if I'm honest.

[Sception]

Special characters don't count for the debate, as they're not bound by the rules & restrictions of generic characters. Krannon resolved the artefact debate because he isn't a special character.

[BitsHammer]

Special characters don't count for the debate, as they're not bound by the rules & restrictions of generic characters. Krannon resolved the artefact debate because he isn't a special character.

I typically count them because they usually still follow the same basic kinds of limitations, but fair enough.

[M@l!ce]

Maybe it's something they will FAQ, since there seems to be an even split on what is and isn't right?  *looks to the date of the last CSM FAQ*

 

Nevermind.

[Kol Saresk]

Maybe it's something they will FAQ, since there seems to be an even split on what is and isn't right? *looks to the date of the last CSM FAQ*

 

Nevermind.

Why would they need to FAQ it? In the supplement it is expressly written that in order to represent characters such as Kranon, you must take the base character and then give it the upgrades they say the character needs. In the case of Kranon, they say to give him three Artefacts.

[M@l!ce]

 

 

Maybe it's something they will FAQ, since there seems to be an even split on what is and isn't right? *looks to the date of the last CSM FAQ*

 

Nevermind.

Why would they need to FAQ it? In the supplement it is expressly written that in order to represent characters such as Kranon, you must take the base character and then give it the upgrades they say the character needs. In the case of Kranon, they say to give him three Artefacts.

I meant for the purpose of general CSM play, as opposed to something in a supplement where they spell it out for one character. I should probably have been clear, so that's my bad.

 

Edit: Though I think I may have a stab at the interpretation thing. Now, the wording is s been already stated, but, that same wording is in the Ranged Weapons section of the CSM Wargear List.

 

Now, it could be argued by those that think it's "replace one weapon and one weapon alone with one of the following" that they intended such given as ranged weapons include such things as the combi bolter, and the combi-whatever, so it would be pointless to carry two ranged weapons when you can only use one a turn.

 

But then, what about the Plasma Pistols? A rule in the core specifically states that you can fire two pistols in the same turn, so what is the point of such an option if you can't actually make use of it? Just wield a PP and BP, I hear you say? Okay, well, that's all fine and dandy, but who wants to do that?

 

I think the wording is intended to allow you to replace either weapon, rather than be limited to upgrading the weapon to something in a similar field. Example, if you want a shooty HQ with the options of firing a Terminator popping PP, or the light infantry wasting Burning Brand, you have such a thing available to you.

 

Or, if you want to be able to call down your DSing reserves with pinpoint accuracy, after you've smashed a unit into smouldering flesh with the Black Mace, in prep for hacking up the IC behind them with the Murder Sword later, you can do so.

 

Course, it doesn't help that the wording they use in the Wargear List for CSM is later butchered in the SM Codex, where the "replace one weapon" thing is nixed entirely from the Ranged section of the wargear list and worded the same as in the melee section.

 

tl;dr, I guess decide amongst your group what does or doesn't make sense and roll with it.

[Gratan]

Special characters don't count for the debate, as they're not bound by the rules & restrictions of generic characters. Krannon resolved the artefact debate because he isn't a special character.

He should have been though...

[Forté]

There's only two weapons in the suppliment anyway. One is Chaos Lord only. The other, Dark Apostle only. All the other relics are items or armour.

 

The rule in CSM stops you having two artifact weapons on one model. Nothing more.

[King Jackal]

I'm thinking:

-level 3 unmarked Div sorcerer

-26 Autogun Cultists

-3 Flamers

 

Most of the powers are going to make cultists lethal with Precognition being the exception

[Rain]

But you know someone will try it stating RAW. I hate little like that.

The only people who don't, are the ones who do it.

The only way to not play the game RAW is to play it with made ad hoc made up rules. I have yet to see a normal country were law/rules works like that.

This is just plain wrong. Real laws actually *do* often work like that, at least in the U.S. where legislative intent is used to figure out whether or not a law should actually operate the way a certain party claims. It's called legal realism and is actually a big part of American jurisprudence. What you are referring to is formalism or textualism and works under the assumption that the people writing the rules can somehow magically predict every possible divergent reading and would have specifically written in a prevention of that reading had it been intended. Rules don't exist in a vacuum, they are written by people and people are fallible, deciding what the rules "are" goes beyond just plain syntactical analysis, or you often get results which are ridiculous.

[the jeske]

 

 

The rule in CSM stops you having two artifact weapons on one model. Nothing more.

 

Why should a rule that isn't in the CS codex limit it ? CSM codex limitations are for codex csm and every other thing that say it has the same limitations as the csm codex .

 

 

 

What you are referring to is formalism or textualism and works under the
assumption that the people writing the rules can somehow magically
predict every possible divergent reading and would have specifically
written in a prevention of that reading had it been intended

That is rather easy to do and no magic is needed . Everything that it doesn't say you can do is illegal . Makes a clear and good justice system. Those who are not bound by the legal system will continue like they did before , while those that are bound it have clear borders of what they can and can not do .

 

Besides I wouldn't call the US justice system as something that works. No justice system that allows its own citizents to attack their own country and go unpunished openly is a good one.

[Hellrender]

I dont see the rule that says vsm codex can only have 2 artefacts per character. It says that ypu can switch out a weapon for a chaos artefact. Nothing more.

 

It never states max 2. Just that you have 2 weapons. But armour relics replace the toons power armour. Not his chainsword.

 

on top of that the slaughter supp has no line at all about amy limitations regarding the relics, just that those that could normally choose artefacts can do so in the slaughter supp but only from there. Note that the line in tje csm dex that says that ypu can choose from the artefact list doesnt specify how many.

[daboarder]

jesus christ you'd think this was dead but people will just grasp for any straw wont they...

 

Christ GW could FAQ the issue and half these people would probably still argue.

 

YOU MAY HAVE MULTIPLE RELICS. UP TO 2 OF THEM WEAPONS

[Kol Saresk]

jesus christ you'd think this was dead but people will just grasp for any straw wont they...

 

Christ GW could FAQ the issue and half these people would probably still argue.

 

YOU MAY HAVE MULTIPLE RELICS. UP TO 2 OF THEM WEAPONS

Yep. I think the only three that don't replace something are the Balestar, Prophet of the Voices and Slaughterer's horns.

 

Although the only ones that are unit-specific are the Balestar and Crozius.

[d@n]

Mot 2+ inv save 1/3rd of the time. Take a hq with prophet of the voices in a rhino with possessed and now your getting shrouded on that rhino 2/3rd of the time.

[daboarder]

MoT cannot increase invul above 3++