Using the Crimson Slaughter Supplement

[d@n]

 

MoT cannot increase invul above 3++

your right, I missed that.

[Nehekhare]

Any character in your Crimson Slaughter detachment that can select Chaos Artefacts

cannot select from those listed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, but can instead select

from the Relics of the Crimson Slaughter, presented opposite, at the points cost shown.

The sentence in question regulates the relic list in C:CSM only.

As CS cannot use aforementioned list, it does not apply to them.

In the list of CS relics such a sentence is nowhere to be found.

Same goes for BL.

 

ergo: neither CS nor BL relics, weapon or not, replace anything.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Any character in your Crimson Slaughter detachment that can select Chaos Artefacts

cannot select from those listed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, but can instead select

from the Relics of the Crimson Slaughter, presented opposite, at the points cost shown.

The sentence in question regulates the relic list in C:CSM only.

As CS cannot use aforementioned list, it does not apply to them.

In the list of CS relics such a sentence is nowhere to be found.

Same goes for BL.

 

ergo: neither CS nor BL relics, weapon or not, replace anything.

It also says

 

“A Crimson Slaughter army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used in addition to those found in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.”

 

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Crimson Slaughter - A Codex: Chaos Space Marines Supplement (eBook Edition).” Games Workshop Ltd, 2014-03-04. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

And the rules for Chaos Artefacts in the CSM Codex are that one Chaos Artefact weapon must replace one regular weapon.

 

And if that isn't enough, if the Blade of the Relentless does not replace a weapon, then how come Kranon isn't listed as having a plasma pistol, Blade of the Relentless and a CCW since he would still have it, following that line of thinking?

[Forté]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NdOK1XL3uIw/UYFe0wPnR8I/AAAAAAAAAKA/iwznG2jcWkM/s1600/facepalm.gif

 

I give up. Everything has been explained here already and it's the same stuff coming up.

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/2280625/human-hamster-wheel-o.gif

[Kol Saresk]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NdOK1XL3uIw/UYFe0wPnR8I/AAAAAAAAAKA/iwznG2jcWkM/s1600/facepalm.gif

 

I give up. Everything has been explained here already and it's the same stuff coming up.

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/2280625/human-hamster-wheel-o.gif

It's Groundhog Day. :P

[Nehekhare]

It also says

 

which does matter why?

 

they do not use this list, nor it's rules.

 

Kranon has what they gave him, as does Iron Father Kristos from Raukaan.

[daboarder]

OK

 

Who is arguing a chaos lord with the Burning brand, Black mace and dimensional key is illegal?

 

Who is arguing that a chaos lord with the burning brand and the dimensional key is illegal

 

Who is arguing that a chaos lord with slaughters horns, Daemonheart and relentless blade thing is illegal.

 

I am arguing that all three are legal in their respective detatchments

[BitsHammer]

 

Any character in your Crimson Slaughter detachment that can select Chaos Artefacts

cannot select from those listed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, but can instead select

from the Relics of the Crimson Slaughter, presented opposite, at the points cost shown.

The sentence in question regulates the relic list in C:CSM only.

As CS cannot use aforementioned list, it does not apply to them.

In the list of CS relics such a sentence is nowhere to be found.

Same goes for BL.

 

ergo: neither CS nor BL relics, weapon or not, replace anything.

 

Not to be contrary, but one CS relic does replace a weapon, as it says so in it's description. But because of that this is wrong:

 

 

It also says

 

“A Crimson Slaughter army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. It also has a series of supplemental rules

(presented below) that can be used in addition to those found in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.”

 

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Crimson Slaughter - A Codex: Chaos Space Marines Supplement (eBook Edition).”

Games Workshop Ltd, 2014-03-04. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

And the rules for Chaos Artefacts in the CSM Codex are that one Chaos Artefact weapon must replace one regular weapon.

 

And

if that isn't enough, if the Blade of the Relentless does not replace a weapon, then how come Kranon isn't listed as having a plasma pistol,

Blade of the Relentless and a CCW since he would still have it, following that line of thinking?

 

The Corzius specifically is mentioned as replaces a weapon, which means that the portion of the codex that governs those relics doesn't carry over (or else it wouldn't need to be restated), so they had to say it again. However, the Blade of the Relentless doesn't have this stipulation (possibly because someone goofed) which means you could take it without losing options for other things.

[Nehekhare]

hehe, kol implicitly says that a CS apostle with

 

-crozius (replaces maul)

-horns (replace BP)

-daemonheart (replaces crozius)

 

has no weapons at all ;D

[BitsHammer]

hehe, kol implicitly says that a CS apostle with

 

-crozius (replaces maul)

-horns (replace BP)

-daemonheart (replaces crozius)

 

has no weapons at all ;D

Dark Apostles come with a Bolt Pistol and Power Maul, what are you talking about?

 

EDIT: Ignore me. Wasn't awake when I hit "reply". Sorry.

[minigun762]

Take the # of Relics debate to the Rules forum please.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

jesus christ you'd think this was dead but people will just grasp for any straw wont they...

 

Christ GW could FAQ the issue and half these people would probably still argue.

 

YOU MAY HAVE MULTIPLE RELICS. UP TO 2 OF THEM WEAPONS

Yep. I think the only three that don't replace something are the Balestar, Prophet of the Voices and Slaughterer's horns.

 

Although the only ones that are unit-specific are the Balestar and Crozius.

 

 

All I'm saying is some people need to read what some one wrote before going "That person said this."

 

Anyway, moving on.

 

I think I'm going to do something simple, just a Chaos Lord with Prophet of the Voices, Daemonheart and Slaughterer's Horns. The rest of the wargear I'll take from the normal list. Underwhelming compared to what you can do, but doesn't leave me with that feeling of playing a cheesy unit.

 

I did see something interesting.

If you don't like possessed then don't take them and don't buy this book then, simple.

 

However, to be constructive I think the way you have to look at possessed if you want to make them work and maximize their worth then you don't view them as "objective holders" that'd be wasting them completely. Cultists do the sitting back and hiding while capping.

 

Instead you have either horde them (best option IMO) and charge forward as fast as possible or you have them bomb forward in rhinos in units of 10. Let's imagine you get to mid-table and it's your T2 you roll the dice - nothing on that table will screw you really, you roll shrouded it means that they are going to be pretty survivable if they fail a charge or get overwatched or are still in the rhino. They become beasts means awesome threat range for a horde unit. Or you roll rending, well that's gonna be good in the close combat you are going to fight that turn anyway and they've just got a brilliant invulnerable save.

 

The additional bonus is that all the while this is a scoring unit so that if and when they end up in the enemies deployment zone they are able to be capturing something rather than just denying.

Thoughts?

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

This was kind of my whole thought on them. Not bad for a unit that is going to race to midfield, probably get shot out of there rides, roll on a table and hopefully a.)get shrouded harder to get shot out of ride b.) beasts so get further faster next round c.) rending and a 3++? if I remember right. So if they charge you they aren't going to like life and you've now got the best invul save in the game. Not a bad distraction I think. And if you want to run footslogging CSM (I know I know) or whatever unit these should at the very least distract your opponent especially if you grin and say they are scoring. Kind of a bit of a psyche factor hopefully. Try and cause some bad decisions at the very least.

[Scribe]

Re: Possessed comment by Ethrion.

 

They are still bad. I dont really care if he thinks the cost is appropriate or not, where is the points saving for losing grenades and ranged weapons? Its not going to save them from a Heldrake deciding they are the target to take a dump on this turn, or a Riptide, or a Wraithknight, or a Knight! :D

 

Still too expensive, still no real method of delivery or deployment options other than the 'Cobraaaaaaaaaaaa' charge over terrain.

 

I like this supplement for a few things, possessed are not one of them.

[Smurfalypse]

 

 

jesus christ you'd think this was dead but people will just grasp for any straw wont they...

 

Christ GW could FAQ the issue and half these people would probably still argue.

 

YOU MAY HAVE MULTIPLE RELICS. UP TO 2 OF THEM WEAPONS

Yep. I think the only three that don't replace something are the Balestar, Prophet of the Voices and Slaughterer's horns.

 

Although the only ones that are unit-specific are the Balestar and Crozius.

 

All I'm saying is some people need to read what some one wrote before going "That person said this."

 

Anyway, moving on.

 

I think I'm going to do something simple, just a Chaos Lord with Prophet of the Voices, Daemonheart and Slaughterer's Horns. The rest of the wargear I'll take from the normal list. Underwhelming compared to what you can do, but doesn't leave me with that feeling of playing a cheesy unit.

 

I did see something interesting.

>If you don't like possessed then don't take them and don't buy this book then, simple.

 

However, to be constructive I think the way you have to look at possessed if you want to make them work and maximize their worth then you don't view them as "objective holders" that'd be wasting them completely. Cultists do the sitting back and hiding while capping.

 

Instead you have either horde them (best option IMO) and charge forward as fast as possible or you have them bomb forward in rhinos in units of 10. Let's imagine you get to mid-table and it's your T2 you roll the dice - nothing on that table will screw you really, you roll shrouded it means that they are going to be pretty survivable if they fail a charge or get overwatched or are still in the rhino. They become beasts means awesome threat range for a horde unit. Or you roll rending, well that's gonna be good in the close combat you are going to fight that turn anyway and they've just got a brilliant invulnerable save.

 

The additional bonus is that all the while this is a scoring unit so that if and when they end up in the enemies deployment zone they are able to be capturing something rather than just denying.

Thoughts?

 

 

I think I would leave the Possessed without anyone in it and in fact have the Champ out front so he is the first to die to small arms fire.

The unit is grossly scary to MCs and having a Prince challenge out your Champ is a bit lame, if he is not there to be challenged you can bet your socks that no Prince will want to charge that unit if there are at least a few left. It would be suicide.

 

I am gonna run some Possessed soon, have not used them in this edition yet and they are probably my favorite unit by far.

 

Also there should be a Possessed-Star you can build out of this.

Daemons w/Karios & Grimoire somewhere.

x20 Possessed

Buff Possessed

Profit. . .

[Kol Saresk]

Re: Possessed comment by Ethrion.

 

They are still bad. I dont really care if he thinks the cost is appropriate or not, where is the points saving for losing grenades and ranged weapons? Its not going to save them from a Heldrake deciding they are the target to take a dump on this turn, or a Riptide, or a Wraithknight, or a Knight! :D

 

Still too expensive, still no real method of delivery or deployment options other than the 'Cobraaaaaaaaaaaa' charge over terrain.

 

I like this supplement for a few things, possessed are not one of them.

I wasn't asking about the cost. That will always be decided by the person building the list.

 

As for what he suggests using them for, that's a different story.

[Kilofix]

Still not quite sure how to best use these new Possessed. Posts suggest that all the D3 effects have uses (and I mostly agree) but do you adjust the actions of your Possessed based on that result?

 

For example, as Infantry, your Possessed won't be in range to Charge this turn. If you roll Shrouded instead of Beasts, then do you run them into cover?

 

Or similarly, if you were in range and had planned to Charge, but roll Shrouded instead of 3++/Rending, do you delay your Charge?

 

Or vice versa, if you're trying to camp an Objective, but roll Beasts instead of Shrouded, do you try to push forward?

 

 

While probably less useful, the old D3 effects were less confusing to me as they were all boosts to CC, so it was just a matter of getting them into CC as fast as possible.

 

As someone who's obssessed with planning ahead, the new random thing confuses me. Looking for insights, thanks!

[Forté]

How about Slaanesh steed Lord and outflanking the possessed?

[Smurfalypse]

Still not quite sure how to best use these new Possessed. Posts suggest that all the D3 effects have uses (and I mostly agree) but do you adjust the actions of your Possessed based on that result?

 

For example, as Infantry, your Possessed won't be in range to Charge this turn. If you roll Shrouded instead of Beasts, then do you run them into cover?

 

Or similarly, if you were in range and had planned to Charge, but roll Shrouded instead of 3++/Rending, do you delay your Charge?

 

Or vice versa, if you're trying to camp an Objective, but roll Beasts instead of Shrouded, do you try to push forward?

 

 

While probably less useful, the old D3 effects were less confusing to me as they were all boosts to CC, so it was just a matter of getting them into CC as fast as possible.

 

As someone who's obssessed with planning ahead, the new random thing confuses me. Looking for insights, thanks!

 

It does cause you to have to change what you do each turn based off of their roll.

However, this also puts your opponent in a bind. He had NO idea what you are going to do because the Possessed will be a bit of a wild card.

 

 

How about Slaanesh steed Lord and outflanking the possessed?

 

Love it.

[d@n]

How about Slaanesh steed Lord and outflanking the possessed?

Add in cypher and Huron for mass outflanking/infiltrating army

[Forté]

 

 

How about Slaanesh steed Lord and outflanking the possessed?

Love it.

Wasn't my idea but for some reason it's got stuck in my head that usually a Possessed squad cannot be joined by a non possessed. That would mean you would have to take Prophet meaning the IC couldn't then join any non possessed units. Have I got that wrong? Would end up with quite an expensive IC.

[Dallas Drake]

15 MoS/IoE Possessed Outflanked by an uber Lord on steed, exactly what I'm going to do.

[Zhukov]

 

.

I did see something interesting.

>If you don't like possessed then don't take them and don't buy this book then, simple.

 

However, to be constructive I think the way you have to look at possessed if you want to make them work and maximize their worth then you don't view them as "objective holders" that'd be wasting them completely. Cultists do the sitting back and hiding while capping.

 

Instead you have either horde them (best option IMO) and charge forward as fast as possible or you have them bomb forward in rhinos in units of 10. Let's imagine you get to mid-table and it's your T2 you roll the dice - nothing on that table will screw you really, you roll shrouded it means that they are going to be pretty survivable if they fail a charge or get overwatched or are still in the rhino. They become beasts means awesome threat range for a horde unit. Or you roll rending, well that's gonna be good in the close combat you are going to fight that turn anyway and they've just got a brilliant invulnerable save.

 

The additional bonus is that all the while this is a scoring unit so that if and when they end up in the enemies deployment zone they are able to be capturing something rather than just denying.

Thoughts?

 

Sure.

 

Saying to not buy this book if you don't want Possessed is nonsense. The artefacts and (free) Fear makes this supplement pretty much slightly superior to the standard CSM codex. No VotLW is a drawback most competitive lists don't care about at all, in other words, it isn't a drawback in practise.

 

Correct, they are not backfield objective holders. Expensive units without ranged options are the worst objective holders possible pretty much.

 

Correct, nothing on their random table will screw you, they are all only positive things after all.

 

No, it is not an additional bonus that they are scoring and thus might be able to capture objective across the field. This is their main selling point. They are still pretty damn terrible when ignoring that. They are decently survivable, but nothing spectacular for their cost. Their damage output is still very lackluster, they should have had permanent rending and even then they pretty much are short on attacks and the WS to make it worthwhile.

 

I also disagree on the way he suggests to use them, in the sense to call that their best use. There is nothing wrong with running 5, 8 or 10 man strong units across the field. Why would it be? The cost is relatively the same. Yes, smaller units are weaker but cost less too. So it depends what you want from them. If you want to try and use 2x 5 man possessed units to help out other assault units and/or trying to score, fine. It depends entirely what you want.

 

So my thoughts overall is that it's a lot of Captain Obvious speak and that I don't agree with the actual opinions.

 

 

I view Possessed as interesting as it gives me the option of running Fearless Marines without having to unlock them with a particular HQ. It's a bonus that Possessed have a lot of things which are actually pretty good in itself and which other units do not have: Fleet and a 5++. Overall they are reliable, even with their random bonus. Just a bit too expensive, but not thát much that it makes them garbage. (As troops at least)

 

Basicly, to see how weak they are, I like this comparison a lot:

 

1 Possessed. 26 points.

3 Daemonettes. 27 points.

 

 

Overall I'm enthousiastic about this Supplement. I would have liked a better artefact for the Daemon Prince I guess, but that's pretty much my only complaint. 

[Gratan]

Just got home with my Crimson Slaughter book (and new Helbrute kit). I need some time to digest, but will give my thoughts once I have done so.

[Trevak Dal]

Is there some sort of limitation on being able to give the Horns to Lords only, or can I give them to a Sorcerer?