Kol Saresk Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Is there some sort of limitation on being able to give the Horns to Lords only, or can I give them to a Sorcerer? There is no limitation imposed so if it can take an Artefact, I'd say it can take the Horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Pretty sure Sorcerer can have the horns of rage & furious charge. I think it's just the sword that's lords only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Pretty sure Sorcerer can have the horns of rage & furious charge. I think it's just the sword that's lords only. The sword has no such restriction either. The only items that are unit specific are the Crozius and the Balestar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Sorcerer with a Force Axe and Horns aint so bad to be honest. A5 on the charge S6 on the charge Instant Death if you have a warp charge left. Pretty scary for multi-wound models to see coming at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Pretty sure Sorcerer can have the horns of rage & furious charge. I think it's just the sword that's lords only. The sword has no such restriction either. The only items that are unit specific are the Crozius and the Balestar. May want to double check. Pretty sure the sword is Chaos Lord only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 just checked, it is indeed lords only....sigh, shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 A Sorcerer gets a force weapon for free so I'd be tempted to pump those points into something else, probably Balestar or Disc of Tzeentch. Sorcerer w/Force Axe Mark of Tzeentch Horns ML3 (1 Tzeetnch + 2 Biomancy or 2 Tele (depending on opponents) Familiar Disc of Tzeetntch Costs about 200 points or there abouts. Pretty useless against IG etc but most of the time he beats stuff up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I prefer the Nurgle variant packing a palaquin myself, go for the 2 biomancy rolls and run a M3 div sorc in the other HQ slot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 No plague marine troops then though :( what would you run with that palanquin variant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Pretty sure Sorcerer can have the horns of rage & furious charge. I think it's just the sword that's lords only. The sword has no such restriction either. The only items that are unit specific are the Crozius and the Balestar.May want to double check. Pretty sure the sword is Chaos Lord only.Your right. I must have read that a dozen times and not seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 No plague marine troops then though what would you run with that palanquin variant? I mostly run zombies or cultists, I cannot stand the disconnect between my basic troops and my elite support options.....shudder I'd run a Sorcerer like this as my Warlord Sorc, MoN (+1T), Palaquin (+2W, +1A), ML3 (1 Nurgle, 2 Bio), Force Axe, Daemonheart (2+, IWND), Sigil, (4++). If I had the points I'd also take the slaughterers horns roughly the same price of typhus, you get a bit more support for the army (good warlord trait and 2 Biomancy spells) but lose the Zombies. He spends time rocking with my terminators. I run him next too Sorc, Termi, ML3 (3 Div), Balestar (Div, re-roll) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 So does anyone know if we can still use our other special characters from the parent book or are we stranded character-less?? Also, is there any way to make our cult units troops as per the usual HQ tax?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you follow all the rules form the main codex UNLESS stated otherwise..... Nothing states otherwise.... How is this hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you follow all the rules form the main codex UNLESS stated otherwise..... Nothing states otherwise.... How is this hard? http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meivrza9dl1qih9gi.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you follow all the rules form the main codex UNLESS stated otherwise..... Nothing states otherwise.... How is this hard? Just asking a question seeing how my book hasn't arrived yet...calm down dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you follow all the rules form the main codex UNLESS stated otherwise..... Nothing states otherwise.... How is this hard? Just asking a question seeing how my book hasn't arrived yet...calm down dude your the 3rd or 4th person to ask this in as many pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Finally got my copy. I'm loving the initial fluff section.... loving it. (Haven't finished it though.) I'm seeing a basic motivation to come back to Chaos after exhausting myself on the 6th edition model and always hitting the same brickwall... I hated our troops. Simply put the idea of Divination cast on one of my fave units (Forgefiends) and Possessed as Troops is just a giant win for me. The fact the codex has some other goodies is just a great bonus. The two downsides for me: Helbrute. I thought with the new model something might be happening to them.... and the Crozius upgrade... the Dark Apostle is a great model and will seemingly still stuck in mediocrity... Hoping to find some hidden gems in here too. Looking forward to exploring the artifacts. Love the art, and the painted stuff... the book overall is a lot more encouraging (to me) than the Black Legion was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I prefer the Nurgle variant packing a palaquin myself, go for the 2 biomancy rolls and run a M3 div sorc in the other HQ slot What unit do you put the Nurgle Lord in? I can't decide between a juggerlord with sigil and either the AoBF or daemon heart and blade(taking CS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you follow all the rules form the main codex UNLESS stated otherwise..... Nothing states otherwise.... How is this hard? And yet I'm wrong for saying the Blade of the Relentless should cost a CCW because the main codex says Artefact weapons must be traded for with another weapon and nothing says otherwise on the Supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The blade of the relentless certainly does replace a weapon, who was saying otherwise? As with the multiple artefacts business, that's confirmed by Krannon's wargear. If the blade didn't replace a weapon, he'd have another weapon. There are two interpretations of the artefacts business that still remain valid post Crimson Slaughter. They are: 1) You can have as many artifacts as you want, but each weapon artifact replaces a weapon you already have - ie, a lord can have burning brand and black mace, but a daemon prince cannot, as the prince only has one weapon to replace. 2) You can have as many artifacts as you want, but you may only take one weapon artifact, replacing one of your current weapons. Ie, black mace plus dimensional key is okay for both lords and princes, but mace plus brand is no good for anybody. This interpretation would also mean that characters would not be allowed to get two separate ranged weapons from the ranged weapon list, since it uses the same 'you may replace one' wording. However, since there's no GW material in 6e or non-special-character official model carrying, say, two combi-weapons or two plasma pistols, that doesn't make the interpretation invalid. You can debate between them all you want. I lean towards the first myself, but would generally follow the second, to avoid potential arguments and because I think two weapons is an awful lot of points to put on the same character, and you can't really use multiple artifact weapons to full effect together, anyway. But the Crimson Slaughter book, by virtue of Krannon's Equipment, does confirm that multiple non-weapon artifacts are certainly allowed, that non-weapon artifacts from the supplements do not replace weapons, and that weapon artifacts from the supplements do. I suppose the other remaining points of argument would be whether the Black Legion eye of night counts as a weapon artifact or not, and whether wargear weapons (like a bike's combi-bolters) can be traded for artefact weapons, but that's neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The blade of the relentless certainly does replace a weapon, who was saying otherwise? As with the multiple artefacts business, that's confirmed by Krannon's wargear. If the blade didn't replace a weapon, he'd have another weapon. There are two interpretations of the artefacts business that still remain valid post Crimson Slaughter. They are: 1) You can have as many artifacts as you want, but each weapon artifact replaces a weapon you already have - ie, a lord can have burning brand and black mace, but a daemon prince cannot, as the prince only has one weapon to replace. 2) You can have as many artifacts as you want, but you may only take one weapon artifact, replacing one of your current weapons. Ie, black mace plus dimensional key is okay for both lords and princes, but mace plus brand is no good for anybody. This interpretation would also mean that characters would not be allowed to get two separate ranged weapons from the ranged weapon list, since it uses the same 'you may replace one' wording. However, since there's no GW material in 6e or non-special-character official model carrying, say, two combi-weapons or two plasma pistols, that doesn't make the interpretation invalid. You can debate between them all you want. I lean towards the first myself, but would generally follow the second, to avoid potential arguments and because I think two weapons is an awful lot of points to put on the same character, and you can't really use multiple artifact weapons to full effect together, anyway. But the Crimson Slaughter book, by virtue of Krannon's Equipment, does confirm that multiple non-weapon artifacts are certainly allowed, that non-weapon artifacts from the supplements do not replace weapons, and that weapon artifacts from the supplements do. I suppose the other remaining point of argument would be whether the Black Legion eye of night counts as a weapon artifact or not, but that's neither here nor there. read throughthe 2nd and 3rd pages right up until Minigun's posts. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Just checked it and here goes.... >There is NO LIMIT to how many Relics you can take but each Relic can only be taken ONCE in the army. >The Crozius is a Dark Apostle weapon only AND replaces his power maul >Blade of the Relentless is CHAOS LORD ONLY and does not state it replaces any other weapon. It is also not a daemon weapon so cannot be compaired to the Chaos Artifacts in CSM codex. Please. Everything is in black and white in the codex and is easy to understand if you take it as they are written. You don't need to read between the lines with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Just checked it and here goes.... >There is NO LIMIT to how many Relics you can take but each Relic can only be taken ONCE in the army. >The Crozius is a Dark Apostle weapon only AND replaces his power maul >Blade of the Relentless is CHAOS LORD ONLY and does not state it replaces any other weapon. It is also not a daemon weapon so cannot be compaired to the Chaos Artifacts in CSM codex. Please. Everything is in black and white in the codex and is easy to understand if you take it as they are written. You don't need to read between the lines with this one. Not reading between the lines. The Supplement says its rules are to be used in addition to the rules in the Codex. Unless saying otherwise. Right? And in the Codex, it says that one weapon(any weapon) must be traded for a weapon artifact. Now, the Crozius says it must be traded for the power maul. This is a case of "stated otherwise" as you must trade a specific weapon in order to get the artifact. It is not player's choice like it is with the main codex. The Blade of the Relentless has nothing "stated otherwise". But it is a Chaos Artefact Weapon and since it has no rules stated otherwise, the Supplement says it must still follow the Codex rules for Chaos Artefact Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Just checked it and here goes.... >There is NO LIMIT to how many Relics you can take but each Relic can only be taken ONCE in the army. >The Crozius is a Dark Apostle weapon only AND replaces his power maul >Blade of the Relentless is CHAOS LORD ONLY and does not state it replaces any other weapon. It is also not a daemon weapon so cannot be compaired to the Chaos Artifacts in CSM codex. Please. Everything is in black and white in the codex and is easy to understand if you take it as they are written. You don't need to read between the lines with this one. The blade of the relentless is a weapon, and replaces a weapon. You can see this in Krannon's equipment. If you don't consider Krannon's equipment to be indicative of the general rules, then the entire multiple artifacts issue is still up for debate. The crozius points out that it replaces the power maul, because it specifically replaces that specific item. ie, you can't replace his pistol with it. The sword still replaces a weapon, just one of your choosing, as per normal artifact weapons. It doesn't matter whether it's a daemon weapon. The murder sword and burning brand aren't daemon weapons either. Daemon weapon is a special rule that some of our artifact weapons have, it has nothing to do with the rules for selecting artifacts. Artifact weapons replace weapons. Again, see Krannon. This is not up for debate, any more than being allowed to take multiple (non-weapon) artefacts is. The remaining debates are whether one is allowed to take multiple weapon artifacts (provided one has multiple weapons to trade - ie, it's a no-go on daemon princes regardless), whether one can replace weapons granted by other wargear with artefacts (ie, can you swap a bike combi bolter for a maul, or a mechatendrils meltagun for a murder sword), and whether the eye of night counts as a weapon or not for the purpose of replacing other weapons (I'd say no, but it's arguable). None of those specific issues have been resolved by the Crimson Slaughter book. ie, there isn't a crimson slaughter character riding a bike with the sword stuck to the front of the bike, or a CS character with two artefact weapons (which wouldn't be possible for CS even if it were allowed generally, due to restrictions on their artefact weapons), or a warpsmith with an artefact weapon on a tendril (which, again, wouldn't be possible for CS even if it were allowed otherwise), or so forth that would clarify those specific issues the way Krannon clarified that multiple (non-weapon) artifacts are allowed, and that weapon artifacts in the supplements still replace weapons, and that non-weapon artifacts in the supplements still do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The ones in Crimson Slaughter are not weapon artifacts. They are Relics of the Crimson Slaughter. Not ever the same letters between ARTIFACTS and RELICS. Could we move on please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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