Using the Crimson Slaughter Supplement

[Scribe]

Not about power level to me, its just options. The more options in general that are decent, the better.

[Ammonius]

iirc, possessed max at 10 per squad?  Do I remember that wrong?

The Codex says that you get 5 on the initial purchase and can buy up to 15 more.

[Smurfalypse]

Well, I mean, I don't know if the CS relics are 'great' apart from divination.  Several of the rest are decent, but, I mean, while artificer armor is a big deal for us, that's still a lot of points to pay for it, and we can't get it, a 3++, and EW on the same dude.

 

2+ and IWND is money man.

[Smurfalypse]

 

 

 

 

Getting back on topic. . . I think I am gonna try a "Possessed-Star" list this weekend vs a shifty opponent.

 

Thinking Daemons as primary

Karios + Herald with Grimoire

 

Possessed x20

Profit!

Cool! Let us know how it goes.

 

Would you consider 20 Possessed in a Spartan with an appropriate HQ (Warpsmith for HP fixing?) for a Possessed-Star? I'm trying to decide if I'd rather put 20 PM's or CS Posessed in the FW grocery getter for the ultimate "What are you gonna do about that?!" unit.

 

Unfortunately Forge World stuff is not really accepted in my parts, mostly cause all the local Tournies (NOVA Open) do not allow them, so no one plays with them in normal games.

 

If I had to choose though, I would still footslog them but I am speaking from a position of inexperience having never used a Spartan before.

Reason being is that I like to keep this stuff as cheap as possible (asking a lot out of Possessed, but they are gonna be unmarked and naked).

[BitsHammer]

Limiting FW because it isn't used in tournaments is something that annoys me. Do people just not like playing games for fun anymore or something?

[Excessus]

Hmm...

 

Crimson Slaughter Lord

Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption, Blade of the Relentless, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart

 

With 7 S5 AP3 attacks on the charge plus Hammer of Wrath, by the second turn in combat he should be at 3+ kills at least. Mobile as heck and with T5, IWND and a 2+/3++ save he's quite sturdy as well. Pricy at 215 points though...

[Smurfalypse]

Limiting FW because it isn't used in tournaments is something that annoys me. Do people just not like playing games for fun anymore or something?

 

Naa, it isn't like that (but thanks for looking at it from a negative standpoint immediately). I let people use whatever they want against me, it is just that most formats in the competitive scenes in the DC area do not allow Forge World, so anyone who is practicing for a major event does not want to practice against anything from it.

 

I play casual games quiet often and I would allow anyone to use anything (including Lords of War). I have no issues with any of it.

[Excessus]

Hmm, haven't bought the supplement yet, but is the sword upgraded with wounds or kills?

[Ammonius]

 

 

 

 

 

Getting back on topic. . . I think I am gonna try a "Possessed-Star" list this weekend vs a shifty opponent.

 

Thinking Daemons as primary

Karios + Herald with Grimoire

 

Possessed x20

Profit!

Cool! Let us know how it goes.

 

Would you consider 20 Possessed in a Spartan with an appropriate HQ (Warpsmith for HP fixing?) for a Possessed-Star? I'm trying to decide if I'd rather put 20 PM's or CS Posessed in the FW grocery getter for the ultimate "What are you gonna do about that?!" unit.

 

Unfortunately Forge World stuff is not really accepted in my parts, mostly cause all the local Tournies (NOVA Open) do not allow them, so no one plays with them in normal games.

 

If I had to choose though, I would still footslog them but I am speaking from a position of inexperience having never used a Spartan before.

Reason being is that I like to keep this stuff as cheap as possible (asking a lot out of Possessed, but they are gonna be unmarked and naked).

Gotcha. I guess at some point I'll have to run it both ways and post results. Is there consensus on how the "becomes beasts" chart result interacts with already being in a transport?

 

And by the by, I admit I impulse-bought the Spartan at Gen-Con because that one FW girl is hot, but now that I own it, I am driven to make it look awesome and run it :)

[Urauloth]

@Excessus: Kills. Models "removed as casualties", to be exact.

[Excessus]

@Excessus: Kills. Models "removed as casualties", to be exact.

Thanks, I guess I'll have to charge my last-turn objective contester lord into a unit of grunts first then, hehe.

[Minsc]

Hmm...

 

Crimson Slaughter Lord

Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption, Blade of the Relentless, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart

 

With 7 S5 AP3 attacks on the charge plus Hammer of Wrath, by the second turn in combat he should be at 3+ kills at least. Mobile as heck and with T5, IWND and a 2+/3++ save he's quite sturdy as well. Pricy at 215 points though...

 

The Disc-lord is interesting, but as always with Tzeentch-characters the problem is where to put him?

He won't last long on his own, even with T5 and 2+/3++.

[Excessus]

 

Hmm...

 

Crimson Slaughter Lord

Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption, Blade of the Relentless, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart

 

With 7 S5 AP3 attacks on the charge plus Hammer of Wrath, by the second turn in combat he should be at 3+ kills at least. Mobile as heck and with T5, IWND and a 2+/3++ save he's quite sturdy as well. Pricy at 215 points though...

 

The Disc-lord is interesting, but as always with Tzeentch-characters the problem is where to put him?

He won't last long on his own, even with T5 and 2+/3++.

My plan is to grab a few unmarked melta-bikers with him as fodder, who can open up transports and such for the lord's wrath...

[Kol Saresk]

Redundant.

[BitsHammer]

 

Limiting FW because it isn't used in tournaments is something that annoys me. Do people just not like playing games for fun anymore or something?

 

Naa, it isn't like that (but thanks for looking at it from a negative standpoint immediately). I let people use whatever they want against me, it is just that most formats in the competitive scenes in the DC area do not allow Forge World, so anyone who is practicing for a major event does not want to practice against anything from it.

 

I play casual games quiet often and I would allow anyone to use anything (including Lords of War). I have no issues with any of it.

Sorry for the negative view point, it's just something I see a lot where people refuse to play against FW because it's not allowed at X event and they don't want to practice against it.

 

Because playing a casual game for fun apparently isn't a good enough reason to play the game anymore. :/

[Sception]

Lots of people like to have set standards and practices.  Furthermore, tournament formats have a reputation of being 'more fair' since competitive balance is part of the goal, so whatever tournament formats are common in an area will tend to have a reputation as 'most fair', with deviations outside of that seen as cheese/exploitation/power gaming.

[BitsHammer]

Lots of people like to have set standards and practices.  Furthermore, tournament formats have a reputation of being 'more fair' since competitive balance is part of the goal, so whatever tournament formats are common in an area will tend to have a reputation as 'most fair', with deviations outside of that seen as cheese/exploitation/power gaming.

Right because 4 Riptides in an army is fine but bring a Dreadclaw and you're some cheesemonger all of a sudden.

 

That double standard really needs to hurry up and die already.

 

I'm fine with people who don't want to play against something they're not familiar with, or just just don't like the stuff FW puts out, but to hide behind excuses that the main game is somehow more fair or balanced without FW is just silly. Heck until the Knight came out the only LoW option Sisters got came from FW! About the only army that gets an unfair amount of love from FW are Guard, and most of the FW specific stuff even for them isn't that good.

 

If you don't like FW or are testing a tourney list just say so, don't hide behind excuses that you can't ever play against FW because it's not allowed at some event you only go to once a year, or because it somehow wrecks game balance.

[Minsc]

Why do the topics about Crimson Slaughter always derail? 

 

Poor Kranon...

[Scribe]

 

 

Limiting FW because it isn't used in tournaments is something that annoys me. Do people just not like playing games for fun anymore or something?

 

Naa, it isn't like that (but thanks for looking at it from a negative standpoint immediately). I let people use whatever they want against me, it is just that most formats in the competitive scenes in the DC area do not allow Forge World, so anyone who is practicing for a major event does not want to practice against anything from it.

 

I play casual games quiet often and I would allow anyone to use anything (including Lords of War). I have no issues with any of it.

Sorry for the negative view point, it's just something I see a lot where people refuse to play against FW because it's not allowed at X event and they don't want to practice against it.

 

Because playing a casual game for fun apparently isn't a good enough reason to play the game anymore. :/

 

Nah it isnt that either. My group almost always does practice for tournament games when we get together, why? Because thats the only time we have to do anything between family, job, gym, etc...

[Smurfalypse]

 

 

Limiting FW because it isn't used in tournaments is something that annoys me. Do people just not like playing games for fun anymore or something?

 

Naa, it isn't like that (but thanks for looking at it from a negative standpoint immediately). I let people use whatever they want against me, it is just that most formats in the competitive scenes in the DC area do not allow Forge World, so anyone who is practicing for a major event does not want to practice against anything from it.

 

I play casual games quiet often and I would allow anyone to use anything (including Lords of War). I have no issues with any of it.

Sorry for the negative view point, it's just something I see a lot where people refuse to play against FW because it's not allowed at X event and they don't want to practice against it.

 

Because playing a casual game for fun apparently isn't a good enough reason to play the game anymore. :/

 

So you do not like it when people do not want to play a way you like, so you let them know how wrong they are that they do not do what they enjoy. . .Nice.

Hows about we stick to the topic and not derail again please.

[BitsHammer]

Back on topic: I hit up GW Digital Editions on Facebook because they seem to be at least partially involved in the rules side of the game about the Possessed in a transport issue and they're passing it onto the rules team. I've tried emailing the FAQ team but we all know how that's going right now.

 

I really think that Chaos Marines with MoK and IoW +CCW might be the fluffiest squad build for the CS (in terms of how they'd play on the table more than the actual icons and marks). I'm thinking of taking 2-3 squads of them with 2x Meltas in Rhinos with Dirge Casters (and maybe Havok Launchers).

 

I -know- Plague Marines would be more effective but I'm loath to build red and gold Death Guard.

 

EDIT: Cleared out the off topic stuff and instead here's what I'm kind of playing with to build an army around (stolen from my post elsewhere):

 

I'm currently looking at two different ways to build the Lord:

Chaos Lord #1:, MoK,
Relentless Blade, Slaughter's Horns (for the Furious Charge bonus),
Daemonheart, Sigil of Corruption, Juggernaught (rides in a pack of
Spawn),

Chaos Lord #2: MoN, Relentless Blade, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart, Blight Grenades, Sigil of Corruption, Bike (rolls in a unit of bikes)

Obviously the first one is slightly killier with the extra attack and isn't too unreasonably defensive wise at T5, W4 (riding with bikes
wouldn't be bad either, but they'd need to be marked correctly to match), but the second trades that extra attack and wound to get to T6,
has the same Strength value. A squad of Nurgle bikes is decently hard to kill as well which makes the unit a bit harder to kill, but they're
faster as well so they can be stuck in by turn 2.

As for the army properly:

Troops:
2 Squads: CSM (x 10), MoK, IoW, +CCW,
2 Melta, Gift of Mutation on the champ (Give the Champ a Lighting Claw
or a Power Weapon?), Rhino, Dirge Caster, Havoc Launcher
1 Squad: Cultists (20-35), Heavy Stubber or Flamers (backfield objective holders mainly)

Fast Attack:
Heldrake, Baleflamer
Raptors (x10), 2 Flamers, 2x LC on the Champ, Gift of Mutation on the Champ (suggested marks? Objective/Pathfinder/Weapon Team hunters)
Bikes or Spawn, max unit (depending on the Lord)

Heavy Support:
Forgefiend (Triple Plas build) (dropped as point require)
2x of either Vindicators (Possessed), Predators (maybe Possessed?) or Obliterator units.

And that's what I'm basically trying to build with/around. I'm open to suggestions (mainly between the options listed more than "you should
never take that, it's not competitive enough, so take this instead"), but keep in mind this isn't something I'm trying to take Nova
with, this is a fun list I'm putting together I'm hoping to have will have some bite to keep things interesting. And no, I'm not filling the army with Plague Marines. If I wanted that I'd still be playing Death Guard.

[Foolio_Displasius]

Hmm...

Crimson Slaughter Lord

Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption, Blade of the Relentless, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart

With 7 S5 AP3 attacks on the charge plus Hammer of Wrath, by the second turn in combat he should be at 3+ kills at least. Mobile as heck and with T5, IWND and a 2+/3++ save he's quite sturdy as well. Pricy at 215 points though...

My random acquisition of a Disc of Tzeentch a few months back suddenly feels smarter.

I do sort of wish I could get the points-cost down, though. North of 200 seems a bit much unless this guy can hold the line all by himself. Could try him as a Sorc to take advantage of built-in I.D. weaponry, but 2 wounds doesn't seem viable for a would-be beatstick...

Dont mind me, just thinking/posting out loud...

[the jeske]

Limiting FW because it isn't used in tournaments is something that annoys me. Do people just not like playing games for fun anymore or something?

Playing FW would mean leting people play with warhounds , which to many people would added another stone to the "unfun to play" w40k garden .

 

 

 

 

 

And that's what I'm basically trying to build with/around. I'm open to

suggestions (mainly between the options listed more than "you should

 

never take that, it's not competitive enough, so take this instead"), but keep in mind this isn't something I'm trying to take Nova

 

with, this is a fun list I'm putting together I'm hoping to have will have some

bite to keep things interesting. And no, I'm not filling the army with

Plague Marines. If I wanted that I'd still be playing Death Guard.

that is a lot of points put in to csm . why not keep them MoK+bolter 2 specials and a rhino and drop the other upgrades.

 

triple plas fiends always a bad idea as are vindicators . take a dakka fiend [and if you realy have to give him a plasma head] and mon oblits or AC/sponson las pred x2.

 

I don't understand the role of raptors in this list . you don't have a second HQ to baby sit them , they are too big to do just anti tank and if you wanted a fast tar pit spawn would have been better.

 

 

Out of the two lords , the second one is ok . A jugger lord would force you to run khorn or unmarked spawn , and non mon spawn are not so good.

 

Given CS has an option to run a lvl 3 divination sorc , he should always be in the list . Preferably on a bike giving re-rolls to the dakka fiend[turn 1-2] or the lord+spawn+sorc unit[turn 2-inifity] .

[BitsHammer]

that is a lot of points put in to csm . why not keep them MoK+bolter 2 specials and a rhino and drop the other upgrades.

 

 

triple plas fiends always a bad idea as are vindicators . take a dakka fiend [and if you realy have to give him a plasma head] and mon oblits or AC/sponson las pred x2.

 

I don't understand the role of raptors in this list . you don't have a second HQ to baby sit them , they are too big to do just anti tank and if you wanted a fast tar pit spawn would have been better.

 

 

Out of the two lords , the second one is ok . A jugger lord would force you to run khorn or unmarked spawn , and non mon spawn are not so good.

 

Given CS has an option to run a lvl 3 divination sorc , he should always be in the list . Preferably on a bike giving re-rolls to the dakka fiend[turn 1-2] or the lord+spawn+sorc unit[turn 2-inifity] .

You're right, it is a lot of points into the CSM. I'm not against dropping the IoW, and I the only thing I was mostly consider on the Champ was the Gift of Mutation, which was more if a "well if I have some points kicking about" thing. I do want to give him a Power Axe or a Lighting Claw though, I just don't know which would be more generally useful. As for the Rhino, the Dirge Caster was a consideration because it could prevent overwatch, but seeing as I'm not committing that many Rhinos to the fight it can likely go. Havok Launchers I'm either way on. I used to get a fair amount of mileage out of them, but I don't know if they're worth it in this edition of hullpoints.

 

I know the Triple Plas Fiend isn't that great, I honestly want it for the sake of it being a really cool looking model more than it being super effective. I'm more than willing to drop it to free up points as needed.

 

Vindis are the one I wasn't so sure on because I know they used to be goodish, but I wasn't full on committed to them. Oblits and Preds are both still options then, I may go Preds because they're generally cheaper and will give me more room to play with things. If I go Preds, should I take Daemonic Possession or leave it off?

 

Raptors are a unit to help flush out units of Pathfinders, Heavy Weapon Teams or small back field objective holders. They're not really there to escort a character, but instead help remove some of the "buried in terrain" backfield units people bring. I'm sure there is probably a more effective method to doing it (like a second Heldrake) but I feel this is a decent solution that's at least worth trying.

 

So bike Lord it is. I'm okay with this.

 

Would the Sorc on a Palaquin be decent for hanging out with things (like the Cultists) (as that'd give him extra wounds and an additional point of toughness) as they'll be in the back field? 

 

I'm honestly not sold on making that bike unit more of a deathstar than it already looks like (I know it'd be even better if I took Fisticlaws but I really don't think I want to spend that much on my Lord) by running the Sorc in there, and I'm not 100% sure that he'd be best served adding the small number of extra wounds to the squad if I stuck him in there.

 

Actually it's a lack of knowing where to put him to use him effectively that has him not on the list at the moment.