Codex: Crimson Slaughter Fluff Summary(Spoilers ahead)

[Wayniac]

What I love the most so far from the bits I've pieced together is that they decided they would follow the Codex Astartes to the letter, and then later they would basically troll other chapters by pointing out every minor thing that they did that went against the Codex.

These are my kinda guys

Sounds like "That one guy in the band".

Anyway, do the novels elaborate on what exactly happened with the "misunderstanding" on the Amalmagation? I have the CS Codex Supplement but it doesn't say too much about it. Why would the CS attack a DA C-I just because he was interrogating a prisoner?

Thanks for the insight.

Not that I'm aware of (I haven't listened to Ascension of Balthasar to know if that one says it). What I gathered from the fluff is that they called him out basically just to troll the Dark Angels, for being against doctrine; by that point they were following the Codex Astartes to the letter and calling out everybody's minor deviations from it just to be jerks, so it sounds like they were all "Hey, it's not protocol to capture an innocent and torture them for information. Mayhaps you've been tainted, brother?" (said with a trollface) and the Dark Angels retaliated. That's how I read it anyways, they were just trolling for the sake of trolling.

[Kilofix]

What I love the most so far from the bits I've pieced together is that they decided they would follow the Codex Astartes to the letter, and then later they would basically troll other chapters by pointing out every minor thing that they did that went against the Codex.

These are my kinda guys

Sounds like "That one guy in the band".

Anyway, do the novels elaborate on what exactly happened with the "misunderstanding" on the Amalmagation? I have the CS Codex Supplement but it doesn't say too much about it. Why would the CS attack a DA C-I just because he was interrogating a prisoner?

Thanks for the insight.

Not that I'm aware of (I haven't listened to Ascension of Balthasar to know if that one says it). What I gathered from the fluff is that they called him out basically just to troll the Dark Angels, for being against doctrine; by that point they were following the Codex Astartes to the letter and calling out everybody's minor deviations from it just to be jerks, so it sounds like they were all "Hey, it's not protocol to capture an innocent and torture them for information. Mayhaps you've been tainted, brother?" (said with a trollface) and the Dark Angels retaliated. That's how I read it anyways, they were just trolling for the sake of trolling.

Lol, I can totally picture that happening exactly the way you described it.

[Wayniac]

What I love the most so far from the bits I've pieced together is that they decided they would follow the Codex Astartes to the letter, and then later they would basically troll other chapters by pointing out every minor thing that they did that went against the Codex.

These are my kinda guys

Sounds like "That one guy in the band".

Anyway, do the novels elaborate on what exactly happened with the "misunderstanding" on the Amalmagation? I have the CS Codex Supplement but it doesn't say too much about it. Why would the CS attack a DA C-I just because he was interrogating a prisoner?

Thanks for the insight.

Not that I'm aware of (I haven't listened to Ascension of Balthasar to know if that one says it). What I gathered from the fluff is that they called him out basically just to troll the Dark Angels, for being against doctrine; by that point they were following the Codex Astartes to the letter and calling out everybody's minor deviations from it just to be jerks, so it sounds like they were all "Hey, it's not protocol to capture an innocent and torture them for information. Mayhaps you've been tainted, brother?" (said with a trollface) and the Dark Angels retaliated. That's how I read it anyways, they were just trolling for the sake of trolling.

Lol, I can totally picture that happening exactly the way you described it.

So can I, and that alone has me now totally sold on the Crimson Slaughter.

[Kol Saresk]

This was before they got nitpicky. Remember, the Schism is what leads to that. Also, nothing says the CS fired the first shots. It was they accused the Chaplain(the spiritual leader who is supposed to be the paragon of doing what is right for any Chapter) o possibly being warp-tainted for talking to a warp-tainted prisoner. Remember, Imperial doctrine was kill the heretic, even if it wasn't a heretic.

 

But in reality, since it was the DA, they had Deathwing Terminators, they wanted to cleanse the hulk themselves and then one of their Interrogator-Chaplains was interrogating a prisoner, not to mention the fact the DA Houdini'd the moment the Inquisition showed up, the chances are this was one of their Hunts.

[Wayniac]

This was before they got nitpicky. Remember, the Schism is what leads to that. Also, nothing says the CS fired the first shots. It was they accused the Chaplain(the spiritual leader who is supposed to be the paragon of doing what is right for any Chapter) o possibly being warp-tainted for talking to a warp-tainted prisoner. Remember, Imperial doctrine was kill the heretic, even if it wasn't a heretic.

 

But in reality, since it was the DA, they had Deathwing Terminators, they wanted to cleanse the hulk themselves and then one of their Interrogator-Chaplains was interrogating a prisoner, not to mention the fact the DA Houdini'd the moment the Inquisition showed up, the chances are this was one of their Hunts.

 

Ah very true.  They do all kinds of weird things in that way when hunting the Fallen.

 

What I like the most about the fluff is that it basically walks you through how things morph in the Warp, and how they go from looking like loyalist Marines to looking like Chaos Marines.

[Kol Saresk]

Exactly. I'm more than willing to bet that when Kranon learned of the Fallen, his first thoughts went to the Almagalmation Schism went "So that's what you were doing. You :cuss holes! It's your fault we started walking this path so long ago!" and then he told the DA "I know you're dirty little secret!"

[Urauloth]

I can easily imagine the DA got extremely touchy about the Sabres poking around in their hunt (after boarding the hulk while they were still arguing about how they should do it themselves) and started the shooting. That would make sense, because it would have contributed to the Sabres feeling unjustly chastised after the incident and their later bitterness when they found out what was really going on.

[incinerator950]

I'm glad that their background is improving past their initial teenage grabbing reveal a while back. 

[Kilofix]

I can easily imagine the DA got extremely touchy about the Sabres poking around in their hunt (after boarding the hulk while they were still arguing about how they should do it themselves) and started the shooting. That would make sense, because it would have contributed to the Sabres feeling unjustly chastised after the incident and their later bitterness when they found out what was really going on.

 

Hmm yes, my money is on the DAs shooting first. It would be just like them when doing their super-secret Fallen hunting.

 

Though as Wayniac proposes - I wouldn't put it past CS starting with the trolling.

[Wayniac]

 

I can easily imagine the DA got extremely touchy about the Sabres poking around in their hunt (after boarding the hulk while they were still arguing about how they should do it themselves) and started the shooting. That would make sense, because it would have contributed to the Sabres feeling unjustly chastised after the incident and their later bitterness when they found out what was really going on.

 

Hmm yes, my money is on the DAs shooting first. It would be just like them when doing their super-secret Fallen hunting.

 

Though as Wayniac proposes - I wouldn't put it past CS starting with the trolling.

 

Well, I got my timelines messed up but they did start with the DA first by suggesting the Chaplain was warp-touched, but I still interpreted that as just trolling them, although no reason was given so maybe they thought they were being sincere (e.g. "Hey that's not protocol!") and the DA basically told them to screw off.

[daveNYC]

Given the DA's sensitivity about the Fallen, the initial conflict could have been nothing more than a straightforward "Brother, why are you wasting time with that heretic?  Deliver the Emperor's judgement and let us move on with this mission."  Pretty easy to see a DA C-I having a bad reaction to being asked 'why', even if the question was semi-rhetorical.

 

And not that any marine chapter is well known for their sense of humor, but the DA are probably touchier than most every other chapter because they're 50% traitor at even the slightest question about being influenced by Chaos.

[Wayniac]

Given the DA's sensitivity about the Fallen, the initial conflict could have been nothing more than a straightforward "Brother, why are you wasting time with that heretic?  Deliver the Emperor's judgement and let us move on with this mission."  Pretty easy to see a DA C-I having a bad reaction to being asked 'why', even if the question was semi-rhetorical.

 

And not that any marine chapter is well known for their sense of humor, but the DA are probably touchier than most every other chapter because they're 50% traitor at even the slightest question about being influenced by Chaos.

 

Good point.  Hinting that a DA, especially a Chaplain, might be influenced by Chaos doesn't seem like a smart thing to say.

[daveNYC]

Even as a joke or a gentle reprimand. 

"Brother, do not listen to the heretic lest his words turn you from the Emperor's light."

 

"Hail Chaplain, are you OK?  The Dark Angels are so renowned that the fact that we younglings have caught up with you while there are still heretics to be slain has me worried that the air of this place might be affecting you."

 

The CS could easily have been jerkwads about things, but it's pretty easy to see the DA reacting badly to pretty much anything other than a Sgt. Schultz reaction.

[Ammonius]

From what I'm gathering here, I think the author of that fluff deserves a pat on the back for creating a generation gap type story between the Crimson Sabres and the Dark Angels, which will no doubt resonate with the young fresh-faced customer, but also brings a smile to older Chaos fans who enjoy reading about uptight and touchy (mostly) loyalist chapters getting needled by their brethren :)

[RolandTHTG]

It didn't happen in the Eye. This happened out in the galaxy. Their search for the Hellfire Stone led them to a Fallen who knew about the Hellfire stone.

EDIT: This was another part that I had glossed over unintentionally.

Basically, while the Crimson Slaughter were looking for the Stone, it was noticed that many of their victims had welts and other marks associated with corruption and mutation across their bodies. Nothing was thought of it until Mannon pointed out that these welts only appeared after the crimson Slaughter had attacked. And so, they stripped the bodies of their flesh, did some jigsaw puzzling and discovered they had a star map. This is what led them to the first Fallen.

Another side note for the more conspiracy-oriented is that during his interrogation, all the Fallen would say of the robed figure with twin pistols, was that he[Cypher] had come to warn the Fallen that he had visions of tragedy concerning the now captured Fallen.

Oh yea, Tzeentch was all in that. The Librarian that was secretly posessed by a Greater Demon of Tzeentch "Just happened to notice" some marks on the flesh that could be assembled into a starmap that led to the fallen? Sure... I believe you...

[Kol Saresk]

It also serves to add some grimdark to the "noble" Dark Angels as their quest for the Fallen is partially what set an entire Chapter onto the path of becoming Renegades and servants of Chaos. You can even blame the Blood Angels for being pompous peacocks who felt they deserved the right to go first just because of when they were created.

It didn't happen in the Eye. This happened out in the galaxy. Their search for the Hellfire Stone led them to a Fallen who knew about the Hellfire stone.

EDIT: This was another part that I had glossed over unintentionally.

Basically, while the Crimson Slaughter were looking for the Stone, it was noticed that many of their victims had welts and other marks associated with corruption and mutation across their bodies. Nothing was thought of it until Mannon pointed out that these welts only appeared after the crimson Slaughter had attacked. And so, they stripped the bodies of their flesh, did some jigsaw puzzling and discovered they had a star map. This is what led them to the first Fallen.

Another side note for the more conspiracy-oriented is that during his interrogation, all the Fallen would say of the robed figure with twin pistols, was that he[Cypher] had come to warn the Fallen that he had visions of tragedy concerning the now captured Fallen.

Oh yea, Tzeentch was all in that. The Librarian that was secretly posessed by a Greater Demon of Tzeentch "Just happened to notice" some marks on the flesh that could be assembled into a starmap that led to the fallen? Sure... I believe you...

That was Kranon's reaction as well after Bane's Landing.

[daveNYC]

It does make the whole 'skin the bodies and use the bits to create a star map' plan a bit more believable when it's all a ploy by a daemon as opposed to something an actual person thought was a good idea.  I mean there's crazy and then there's crazy.

[Knight of the Raven]

Credit where it's due, it's a good background. Looks like the Big Bads Abaddon and Huron got a little brother.

Well, technically he never died. Bane's Landing happens in 999.M41, just before the Black Crusade. At the end of Dark Vengeance, a Dark Angels Librarian predicts that Balthasar and Kranon will meet up some three years later and Kranon will die. However, because it is a prediction and "it has not happened yet, if it happens at all", Kranon is alive.

You mean like Geraniton was predicted to kill Mortarion once and for all?

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, a lot of the "revelations" of the Crimson Slaughters' background, relies quite a bit of hindsight. The enmity of the Dark Angels going back to what happened during the Amalgamation Schism and what happened as a result. Mannon-Txan'lamtar leading the Crimson slaughter after the Hellfire Stone, an artifact which would have increased the already powerful haunting. And when you throw in Crimson Dawn, well the theories about the fall of the Crimson Sabres being a well-orchestrated conspiracy by greater powers certainly seems legitimate.

[Kol Saresk]

Credit where it's due, it's a good background. Looks like the Big Bads Abaddon and Huron got a little brother.

Well, technically he never died. Bane's Landing happens in 999.M41, just before the Black Crusade. At the end of Dark Vengeance, a Dark Angels Librarian predicts that Balthasar and Kranon will meet up some three years later and Kranon will die. However, because it is a prediction and "it has not happened yet, if it happens at all", Kranon is alive.

You mean like Geraniton was predicted to kill Mortarion once and for all?

How was it said in the Malus Darkblade series?

Prophecy can only come about if one has the foresight to direct it? Probably paraphrased to the extreme.

But essentially, yes. His predicted death is only one outcome. Who knows what might really happen.

[Wayniac]

Yeah, a lot of the "revelations" of the Crimson Slaughters' background, relies quite a bit of hindsight. The enmity of the Dark Angels going back to what happened during the Amalgamation Schism and what happened as a result. Mannon-Txan'lamtar leading the Crimson slaughter after the Hellfire Stone, an artifact which would have increased the already powerful haunting. And when you throw in Crimson Dawn, well the theories about the fall of the Crimson Sabres being a well-orchestrated conspiracy by greater powers certainly seems legitimate.

 

For me all of that sealed the deal.  I was skeptical at first because of the "out of nowhere" vibe the Slaughter got, but reading Dark Vengeance, Crimson Dawn and the fluff in the supplement it all makes sense and falls into place, and they're really built up to be like the up-and-coming guys, like that rookie making waves that has the potential to make it big in the NFL.  My only point of contention is that the supplement refers to Draznicht as being a Veteran Sergeant, while in Crimson Dawn he's 1st Company Captain.

 

I also liked how the 4th company captain took most of his guys and split off, saying they were still the Crimson Sabres and went and somehow reinhabited their irradiated homeworld, although I don't think that's going to work so well for him.

 

Also, I didn't see anything mentioning daemons, so would it be terribly unfluffy to rock a Daemon Prince?  I mean, the possessed are explained as the ghosts manifesting (there's even a blurb about sometimes after the slaughter the person returns relatively normal), so any way to swing that for DP?  Mostly because that miniature looks awesome, but I want to stay true to the fluff.

[daveNYC]

Credit where it's due, it's a good background. Looks like the Big Bads Abaddon and Huron got a little brother.

Well, technically he never died. Bane's Landing happens in 999.M41, just before the Black Crusade. At the end of Dark Vengeance, a Dark Angels Librarian predicts that Balthasar and Kranon will meet up some three years later and Kranon will die. However, because it is a prediction and "it has not happened yet, if it happens at all", Kranon is alive.

You mean like Geraniton was predicted to kill Mortarion once and for all?

How was it said in the Malus Darkblade series?

Prophecy can only come about if one has the foresight to direct it? Probably paraphrased to the extreme.

But essentially, yes. His predicted death is only one outcome. Who knows what might really happen.

Could just mean three years subjective time for one of them. not necessarily three years on the Terran realspace calendar. Between stasis fields and the warp making clocks run backwards things are pretty wide open.

Similarly, Geraniton could end up killing Mortarion, not by actually striking the killing blow, but by actually being carved on Mortarion's heart (because I guess that literally did happen, joy), thus being small thing that pushes Mortarion over the edge into non-existance. Bonus points on that because it works on the basis of being literally true (the word Geraniton is what actually does Mortarion in), but is exactly not what everyone though would happen (that the guy named Geraniton would kill Mortarion).

Still, prophecies are always a sticky thing. Either they happen, at which point you question agency, or they don't, so you question why anyone bothers with them. The Belgariad managed to do a good job with the subject by having the conflict actually be between to competing (and opposite) prophecies.

[Kol Saresk]

Or they happen in such a way that you wonder if it was by accident or you wonder just how far the prophecy is being stretched in order to be true.

 

But suffice to say, the Battle of Bane's Landing was 884999.M41. Numarc, was 921999.M41. It is noted that in the time the Crimson Slaughter attacked Numarc and returned to the Lost Hope, decades had passed for the space hulk while the warband that had been involved in the attack had only experience less than a Terran standard year of passage. And then in 995999.M41, he was leading one of the many speartips of the 13th Black Crusade that were piercing Imperial space behind the Cadian Gate in an effort to disrupt reinforcements and supply lines.

[BitsHammer]

Or they happen in such a way that you wonder if it was by accident or you wonder just how far the prophecy is being stretched in order to be true.

Sounds like pretty much anything to do with Nostradamus.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Or they happen in such a way that you wonder if it was by accident or you wonder just how far the prophecy is being stretched in order to be true.

Sounds like pretty much anything to do with Nostradamus.

 

 

Actually, funnily enough I was thinking of the Bible.