Sons of Malice: What happened?

[M@l!ce]

Alright. In true George Lucas fashion, I am going to follow up my intro post with the post that should have come before.

Now, I noticed on here that there's a fairly decent SoM following, or there was enough of one that folks would post their WiP armies, and their amy lists using the GK Codex and whatnot.

The counts as thing alone made me think that fans of the chapter were passionate enough about them that they wanted to make sure they were the anti chaos haters of hating that folks want them to be, as the 4th Ed dex likely wasn't doing them justice. 3.5 at least gave us the Dreadaxe and the Veteran skills, so there really wasn't much need for anything more than that to represent them, back then.

But then 6th Ed happened. No. I am not going to whine about 6th Ed. The game is alright, the CSM Codex for it is a sign of experimental Codex implementation with the new rules, nothing I say here will be slating that Codex, and I don't expect that to be the topic here.

No, instead, I just want to mention how the SoM were flat out squated when it came to the 6th Ed Codex. They gave us some new Renegades instead, and even a whole list of ones which all turned traitor around the same time, but then went and left the guys who had (IMHO) a better (albeit more vague) BG than a lot of those others out of it, in a manner which was akin to revealing a bit of sideboob to a snowflake player/grognard like me, and then never calling again, and making sure to block me on Skype.

Wait, I had a point, didn't I? Oh yeah, SoM. So, anyways, the players also seemed to forget these guys, and I don't know if that's something to do with edition changes, the fact they are a niche taste, or just the fact they are a blatant nod to something no longer a part of GW IP. But we got a whole short story which set things up for us to come back swinging!

I mean, if we assume that The Labyrinth happens a little after the 13th BC, where some unknown chapter takes Scelus and claims it for their own (something mentioned in the story, I might add), then we can safely say that these guys should be on their own little crusade right about now.

Now, I suppose the question of what the point of this thread has come to mind. Well, the point is to see just how many folks out there actually care about the SoM still. Chances are many don't, which is understandable. As I have said already, niche taste. But I guess without having been into the hobby around the time when Malice was starting to become a thing, I haven't had a chance to see just what happened to make them fall into the realms of such things as Hivefleet Colossus (another salute to grognards) and the Homo Sapiens Variatus (though least you can do cultists with MoK for them.

Well, that's my rant for the day over. Just needed to get that off my chest, especially now that my boys are being overshadowed by the *insert name of a certain Marilyn Manson song here* that is the CS. Not bashing CS, btw, I just want some black and white love, is all.

[Rain]

Sons of Malice were never that big to begin with. They had a paint scheme in 3.5, had a blurb about them in the IA:Renegades article and were briefly mentioned in old EoT materials. Oh and yeah had a short story about them. But hey, at least you didn't get completely retconned like the Flawless Host. Oh and the reason people use the GK codex is because it's powerful, not because it represents SoM particularly well. SoM may hate Chaos, but they aren't all psykers armed with force weapons and storm bolters, they just hate Chaos. You know, just like loyalist chapters that hate Chaos but aren't Grey Knights.

[M@l!ce]

Sons of Malice were never that big to begin with. They had a paint scheme in 3.5, had a blurb about them in the IA:Renegades article and were briefly mentioned in old EoT materials. Oh and yeah had a short story about them. But hey, at least you didn't get completely retconned like the Flawless Host. Oh and the reason people use the GK codex is because it's powerful, not because it represents SoM particularly well. SoM may hate Chaos, but they aren't all psykers armed with force weapons and storm bolters, they just hate Chaos. You know, just like loyalist chapters that hate Chaos but aren't Grey Knights.

I'm aware, but I didn't exactly want to mark my first days here by outright pointing fingers and calling people power gamers. Wouldn't be the classiest move.

I much prefer to actually use CSM for the SoM, though there isn't much in the Codex which truly represents a SoM theme. Granted, with the small amount of fluff they have, it's hard to really say what is actually "right" for them. Which is why I've been taking the time to homebrew a supplement for them.

On a note regarding the Flawless Host, however, I must ask, was there anything particularly special about them which warranted them paying more mind to them? Serious question, as what I have read about them makes them sound like EC mrk 2. I could be wrong, but since you seem to be a fan, you could enlighten me.

Also, there are two models painted and named for the Flawless Host in the CSM Codex, so not too sure what you mean by retcon. Not to mention... *looks at page 15* Unlike the SoM. Who aren't even mentioned in CSM 6th Ed.

[Angrypantz]

Funny this talk of Sons of Malice.  Recently saw someone paint a fantastic kill team of them and wish I had saved the pictures somewhere so that I could share them.

I really liked the colour scheme from back in the day and I think they would make a striking force on the table.  I think the main problem is that it is painting black and white quartered and not everyone is comfortable doing that.  I'm sure there are some talented people out there that can do them justice but they all have their own pet projects to work on to start something like that.  

If that was something that you were interested in then that would be awesome and I look forward to seeing what you post to the forum at a later date.  

[Rain]

Well yeah, Flawless Host used to be a warband formed of the 39th Company of the Emperor's Children, led by a sorcerer that--I don't remember much about him but he did have a short fluff blurb in a White Dwarf or something, along with the fact that he had a retinue of elite Emperor's Children terminators. So not much, but they did have some background that marked them as a splinter warband of the EC, now they are a traitor chapter that turned because---they felt like it I guess--it's not very clear, just says they attack anyone that questions their magnificence. Anyway, my point is just that GW plays fast and loose with the minor warbands so if anything you should be happy SoM didn't get totally retconned into Khorne followers or something.

 

Edit: By the way the reason the Flawless Host thing stuck out to me is that I like their color scheme and once considered making a small army of them, so I found the only fluff there was about them but never really got any models. Then in this codex they were turned into another silly traitor chapter turning for silly reasons. Oh well.

[Spacefrisian]

_{Malice seems to have connections to Malal, rage and hate and all them things. That being said look at what mark of Khorne now gives to a chaos marine...Rage and counter attack.}

 

_{Even if GW is trying to make us forget about Malal, they stil have some peeps who in some way hint at him.}

[M@l!ce]

Well yeah, Flawless Host used to be a warband formed of the 39th Company of the Emperor's Children, led by a sorcerer that--I don't remember much about him but he did have a short fluff blurb in a White Dwarf or something, along with the fact that he had a retinue of elite Emperor's Children terminators. So not much, but they did have some background that marked them as a splinter warband of the EC, now they are a traitor chapter that turned because---they felt like it I guess--it's not very clear, just says they attack anyone that questions their magnificence. Anyway, my point is just that GW plays fast and loose with the minor warbands so if anything you should be happy SoM didn't get totally retconned into Khorne followers or something.

 

Edit: By the way the reason the Flawless Host thing stuck out to me is that I like their color scheme and once considered making a small army of them, so I found the only fluff there was about them but never really got any models. Then in this codex they were turned into another silly traitor chapter turning for silly reasons. Oh well.

I see, I see.  I understand what you mean, now.  Yeah, I confess to having a break from GW for a while, so I actually missed a great many issues of White Dwarf.  Strangely enough, though, I actually prefer Renegade chapters, to warbands which are just alternative color schemes for factions of the Chaos Legions, but that's just me.

[Kol Saresk]

Well yeah, Flawless Host used to be a warband formed of the 39th Company of the Emperor's Children, led by a sorcerer that--I don't remember much about him but he did have a short fluff blurb in a White Dwarf or something, along with the fact that he had a retinue of elite Emperor's Children terminators. So not much, but they did have some background that marked them as a splinter warband of the EC, now they are a traitor chapter that turned because---they felt like it I guess--it's not very clear, just says they attack anyone that questions their magnificence. Anyway, my point is just that GW plays fast and loose with the minor warbands so if anything you should be happy SoM didn't get totally retconned into Khorne followers or something.

 

Edit: By the way the reason the Flawless Host thing stuck out to me is that I like their color scheme and once considered making a small army of them, so I found the only fluff there was about them but never really got any models. Then in this codex they were turned into another silly traitor chapter turning for silly reasons. Oh well.

1.) Skulltakers. Analogous history.

 

2.) Even if they are a Fallen Chapter, what prevents them from being taken over by an EC sorcerer? Or a specific warband from being led an EC sorcerer?

 

 

On topic; the Sons of Malice suffer from the same problem all non-Legion Warbands suffer from: They aren't a Legion warband. They're "just Renegades" and so they got shelved not because anyone hated them or forgot about them, but because there is very little demand for Renegades in much of the Chaos community because everyone is so focused on "Legions". Its partially why I think GW went with the Crimson Slaughter. Not to slap the face of the Renegades that were already out there, but to go "This is the history of the New Kids. Imagine how much more history there is for the other Renegades who have been on the block for much longer?" in an effort to revive interest in the Renegades. Something tells me it went over like a lead balloon.

[Angrypantz]

Well yeah, Flawless Host used to be a warband formed of the 39th Company of the Emperor's Children, led by a sorcerer that--I don't remember much about him but he did have a short fluff blurb in a White Dwarf or something, along with the fact that he had a retinue of elite Emperor's Children terminators. So not much, but they did have some background that marked them as a splinter warband of the EC, now they are a traitor chapter that turned because---they felt like it I guess--it's not very clear, just says they attack anyone that questions their magnificence. Anyway, my point is just that GW plays fast and loose with the minor warbands so if anything you should be happy SoM didn't get totally retconned into Khorne followers or something.

Edit: By the way the reason the Flawless Host thing stuck out to me is that I like their color scheme and once considered making a small army of them, so I found the only fluff there was about them but never really got any models. Then in this codex they were turned into another silly traitor chapter turning for silly reasons. Oh well.

1.) Skulltakers. Analogous history.

2.) Even if they are a Fallen Chapter, what prevents them from being taken over by an EC sorcerer? Or a specific warband from being led an EC sorcerer?

On topic; the Sons of Malice suffer from the same problem all non-Legion Warbands suffer from: They aren't a Legion warband. They're "just Renegades" and so they got shelved not because anyone hated them or forgot about them, but because there is very little demand for Renegades in much of the Chaos community because everyone is so focused on "Legions". Its partially why I think GW went with the Crimson Slaughter. Not to slap the face of the Renegades that were already out there, but to go "This is the history of the New Kids. Imagine how much more history there is for the other Renegades who have been on the block for much longer?" in an effort to revive interest in the Renegades. Something tells me it went over like a lead balloon.

On the contrary, at least where I live, Crimson Slaughter were greeted quite readily and has been enjoyed by many chaos enthusiasts, myself included.

Next month I'm getting the Black Legion book to use as allies (my lot are happy with it so lets not open a debate on whether it is or isn't allowed please). I have a vision of Red Corsairs allied with Chaos Imperial Fists. (I liked the idea of the Dorian Heresy, just not the execution. Personal Opinion)

The supplements add options to themed lists that are kinda there in the codex to a certain extent I guess but ultimately, if you want to bring back the Sons of Malice then more power to you. Go crazy. I do

[M@l!ce]

Funny thing, while I have noticed some folks are comparing the CS Codex to Word Bearers lite, I am noticing some aspects of my homebrew Codex which make them slightly similar (note slightly) to Night Lords. :P

 

But yeah, gotta agree on the legions thing.  Though I am glad that the CS have come along and set a precedent.  And as Kol said, if that's what they can do with Renegades that have recently turned... *evil smirk*

[Kol Saresk]

Funny thing, while I have noticed some folks are comparing the CS Codex to Word Bearers lite, I am noticing some aspects of my homebrew Codex which make them slightly similar (note slightly) to Night Lords.

Trust me, you ain't the only one. I've seen similarities between them and a few Legions.

[M@l!ce]

As a random aside, while looking at how best to represent them from a modeling standpoint, I was trying a tried and tested tactic of painting over the skull decals on the CSM sheet to make the mark of Malice.  Sadly, it worked better when the left shoulder pad was bisected black and white, as the outline could at least be made to stand out.  If I use the fanon chapter symbol, I have to paint the outline of one side white, which I found I was unable to do.

 

So, I decided to make things easy, and since the CSM shoulder pads are not lacking in skulls, I will be taking the 3D skull pads and using them as the left shoulder pads, and panting the skulls black and white.  Gives us about 4 different variations of the chapter symbol.  Going to try painting one some time to see how it works.

[hushrong]

What happened? For me, mostly ADD.

[Plague Angel]

....there is very little demand for Renegades in much of the Chaos community because everyone is so focused on "Legions". Its partially why I think GW went with the Crimson Slaughter. Not to slap the face of the Renegades that were already out there, but to go "This is the history of the New Kids. Imagine how much more history there is for the other Renegades who have been on the block for much longer?" in an effort to revive interest in the Renegades. Something tells me it went over like a lead balloon.

I'm still certain it's just because following up on Dark Vengeance is smart. GW isn't concerned about old, locked-in players from previous editions who will keep buying no matter how much they hate the current ruleset, they need to keep the new players who impulse bought the starter set. CS supplement makes 1000% sense to do for that reason alone before you bring other reasons into it, though other reasons there may have been.

 

 

On topic, I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't be able to field a perfectly thematic Sons of Malice-al list with any current C:CSM. All we know about them is that they are Chaos Space Marines who serve a minor god philosophy of Chaos turning in against itself. Avoid elite cult marines, take regular CSM units, and there you go. Everything else (daemons like Possessed/Raptors, Helbrutes, dragon, etc.) fits in just fine. At most I'd try to spread out my marks without leaning too heavily to one of the Four, but even there you could pick just two to focus on. Maybe the Sons of Malice fit some grey Chaosy mix where Khorne and Tzeentch's minds intertwine or something.

[M@l!ce]

I'd say Crimson Slaughter would make a good fit for counts as Sons of Malice.  Course, if we just want to base them off the limited fluff we have on them, a standard CSM army with MoK in abundance could also work, as has been suggested.

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of using Chaos Marks to count as something else (except for the exception of Cultists, to make Beastmen, Squats, etc), but that's just me.

[M@l!ce]

Welp, raiding my bits box for shoulder pads and other CSM bits turned out more fruitful than expected. Found a whole bunch of shoulderpads with skulls on them, be it from the CSM box, or berzerker box, and heck, I might even have enough parts for a few squads of Sons. Some of the shoulder pads are already on right arms, mind, due to me previous habit of leaving left shoulders clear for decals, but nothing a bit of chopping and gluing won't fix. >.>

Painted a skull bearing shoulder pad in the Malice colors to see how it looked, and got surprisingly decent results, even if I thought shading white would be a pain in the rear. Gonna slap it on a test model, paint it all up, and then see about finding a decent cam so I can post a pic.

[Slave to Darkness]

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/the-malignancy-of-malal-solving-mystery.html

 

a lil something to read

[M@l!ce]

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/the-malignancy-of-malal-solving-mystery.html

 

a lil something to read

Oh I've read that before.  Just a shame it didn't tell me much more than what I already know. :s  The other article about the Malal Daemonic Pantheon was cool, though.  Liked how they went into the reasons behind the common trait of Malal Daemons.

 

Given as I am trying to figure out a look for my homebrew Malice cult troops to make them stand out from standard CSM, might see about including some of those themes.

[Slave to Darkness]

someone has actually sculpted the weird bird headed daemon of malal, cant remember where you can order it from though

[M@l!ce]

Having reread the post on the Daemons of Malal, I've decided to take the insectoid theme and make that the common trait of the Branded cult unit.  Want to avoid flies if Ican, due to them being more a Nurgle thing, but other insects such as the praying mantis, ants and other similar insects would certainly be quite fitting, to represent the aspects of Malice's chosen warriors stripping battlefields clean of the taint of the other ruinous powers.A

 

ny ideas on a cheap and easy way to model this?  Suppose I could just green stuff promiment eye pieces on CSM and SM helmets.

[RolandTHTG]

Bug eyes alone would imply nurgle, it think. I'd recommend adding mandibles to helmets (think ants or wasps) and using tyranid parts to add a more insectile look to mutations. 

[M@l!ce]

Yeah, mouthparts probably would be better, especially for renegades known for eating the enemy.  Cheers for that. :)  Time to get some sculpting practice in, I guess. >.>

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I've never been a huge Malal/Malice fan, but this manible-on-helmet idea sounds awesome.  I'd love to see what you come up with.

[Verythrax Draconis]

As a SoM fan, I'm open to suggestions on how to incorporate the cult troops, daemon engines and such in a SoM army ;)

[M@l!ce]

As a SoM fan, I'm open to suggestions on how to incorporate the cult troops, daemon engines and such in a SoM army

As much as I'd like to push what I'm working on, I understand that not every gaming environment allows Homebrew. Especially not tournaments.But, here's the thing, you don't want/need my suggestions, because my first suggestion in regards to cult units being included is... Don't. xD At least if you're going for fluff.

If you're asking for help with such from a purely competitive standpoint, well, picture this for the Daemon Engines. The Labyrinth drifts through the EoT awaiting the return of the SoM ach century to carry out their special rites. It's bowels are infested with creatures that were once Sons of Malice themselves, lost within the labyrinth to slowly devolve into mindless mutants. But hat guards the exterior? Much as those who are lost within the Labyrinth are corrupted, so too are those renegade pilots who were set to guard the space hulk against attackers, becoming the foul daemonic fliers known as Heldrakes. Clinging to the space hulk like parasites, they swoop down upon whichever worlds the space hulk passes, sowing terror and destruction wherever the shadows of their wings pass.

As for cult troops, I'd say just go with Khorne, as that mark seems about the closest to the SoM'sblood thirsty and hate filled aspects. Apparently MoK is still pretty decent as long as you don't take overcosted Zerkers and just stick it on basic CSM units and whatnot.