cypherthefallenangel Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Ive decided to take the plunge and order a flyer from forge world. My Dilemma is which one should I get? Vulture with punisher cannons.. fast, maneuverability, and lots of shots. Or. Avenger with lascannons and tac bombs. similar role but can go after heaver armor and cool anti infantry bombing runs. These two fliers are aesthetically My favorite fliers in the game. Both would have similar game role and stats. Im torn though. I've never played with or against either so I dont really know how well they preform. I really like both models so from a modeling perspective I'm sure ill be happy with either one. I'd like some input as to which would be a better game preformer. I tend to run mech/drop vets with artillery , a couple of Russes and on big games a stormlord or shadowsword, a Knight paladin, and Cypher. I have been thinking of doing an well equipped Merc army . If the rumored codex Stormtrooper is what we think it is. I just recently acquired a ton of old stormtroopers and kasrkins that with a few new scions will make up my troops and hqs. maybe some sentinels if allowed and vendettas. No armored vehicles except an allied free blade Knight titan. Which of the two flier do you think would best compliment both armies best? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter h Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 bomb run sounds great. Avenger,would be an interesting choice with the additional role of anti -air role.heavily armed. The avenger would be my choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3623884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I play with both. ^^; The Avenger is incredibly fragile in return for its killing power, and despite the AP3 main gun, it's not quite a Helldrake because it doesn't ignore cover. Lascannons are nice, and you are going to struggle with anti-tank (although with melta-vets, not as much as I do!), but SAV10 and 2HP really hurt, especially if the enemy brings fliers. However, against anything except Land Raiders, the Punisher's 20 S5 shots are incredibly good, because the Vulture has Vector Dancer. With a little care, you can pretty much always get in a shot against rear armour with the twin-linked BS4 guns. It also fits the Guards' main special rule ("I roll more dice than you") better. Where the Punisher struggles and the Avenger becomes incredible is against Stronghold armies, especially ones that hole up in a Fortress of Redemption with Void Shields. The Bolt Cannon can reliably kill a Void Shield, allowing the Lascannons to have a go at the bunker beneath. I do tend to run the Avenger with autocannons or missile launchers, however, rather than bombs. I'm just not fond of one-shot weapons, even if you do get six of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3623957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionofjudah Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I have a vulture with punishers and it is a blast(literally);) the avenger is sexy and the bolt cannon looks darn good! I run a heavy armoured list and the vulture shines... Good luck picking... Perhaps a quarter toss? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3624269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I play with both. ^^; The Avenger is incredibly fragile in return for its killing power, and despite the AP3 main gun, it's not quite a Helldrake because it doesn't ignore cover. Lascannons are nice, and you are going to struggle with anti-tank (although with melta-vets, not as much as I do!), but SAV10 and 2HP really hurt, especially if the enemy brings fliers. However, against anything except Land Raiders, the Punisher's 20 S5 shots are incredibly good, because the Vulture has Vector Dancer. With a little care, you can pretty much always get in a shot against rear armour with the twin-linked BS4 guns. It also fits the Guards' main special rule ("I roll more dice than you") better. Where the Punisher struggles and the Avenger becomes incredible is against Stronghold armies, especially ones that hole up in a Fortress of Redemption with Void Shields. The Bolt Cannon can reliably kill a Void Shield, allowing the Lascannons to have a go at the bunker beneath. I do tend to run the Avenger with autocannons or missile launchers, however, rather than bombs. I'm just not fond of one-shot weapons, even if you do get six of them. Avenger has 3 HP according to my copy of Imperial Armour 12 in the DKoK Assault Brigade list ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3624279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Since you haven't tried either one (or seen them used), I'd use a different flyer (or borrow one) and proxy each one in a few games (at least) before deciding. That will give you a better idea of which one is better for you than any of our opinions would. Plus, it gives you an excuse to arrange more games of 40k, and that's never a bad thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3625024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Shizu Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Avenger has 3 HP according to my copy of Imperial Armour 12 in the DKoK Assault Brigade list ... It has 2 both in the Imperial Armour Aeronautica (Which I believe is the most up to date ruleset for it... I think XD) and the DKoK Siege list downloadable from Forge World. So perhaps the one in IA 12 is a type? Or is that book newer then these other two sources? That aside I'd say Furyou has it pretty much down. For pure rules the Vulture is far superior, both in loadout, survivability and movement. Ohh and somehow it is also cheaper XD With that said the Avenger is a darn cool model, one of my favourite Navy planes, and I am currently hoping to save money for one to support my Warhawks. (Already have a vulture which is just so stupidly fun to play with XD) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3625363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Vulture because of Vector Dancer primarily, better armor, and you can outfit it with Multi-lasers, AC, LasCannon plus Missiles or Rocket Pod instead of the Punisher if you need to go after something heavier. I magnetized my Vulture weapons so I can swap them out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3625364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The 3 HP in Orpheus was a typo, according to the several people who have emailed FW about it. The Avenger and the Thunderbolt's HP stats were reversed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3625398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Vulture - You know you want it (forgive my unpainted base). Edit - Vulture is a true Gunship. Avenger is like a Star Wars Pod Racer. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7191/13248336093_d1e6112b2d_b.jpg http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2874/13248217645_0a0afa1324_b.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/13248589384_b78733794a_b.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3625536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I appreciate them. I have decided to go with .DUN dun Daaah. The Vulture. The deciding factors. Vector dance, punishers, 3hp and the plane with the punisher cannons is cheaper than the Avenger with nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3625707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 When can we expect to see the finished model? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3626120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 You bet I will. Im gonna save it for the ETL. Along with a bunch of stormtroopers. I had to get a knight titan to keep me busy so I can save models for the ETL. :) Ill keep my WiP thead updated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3627248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I don't rate the Vulture with punisher cannons... But I have to take one in my Elysian army because it look so dang cool... Also... who doesn't love buckets of dice? When I say I don't rate punisher cannons... I don't think they are as good as many people seem to say. They aint bad... And... I will say that from time to time magical things happen. I have taken out tanks, 10 man tactical squads, and Mephiston Lord of Death in one turn of shooting with punisher cannons (1 of the above in a single turn, not all of the above in a single turn), so they can be deadly. I just don't consider them to be that reliable... HPs being added to the game has made them a lot better against vehicles. I say get one because they look cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3627355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 When I say I don't rate punisher cannons... I don't think they are asgood as many people seem to say. They aint bad... And... I will say that from time to time magical things happen. I have taken out tanks, 10 man tactical squads, and Mephiston Lord of Death in one turn of shooting with punisher cannons (1 of the above in a single turn, not all of the above in a single turn), so they can be deadly. I just don't consider them to be that reliable... HPs being added to the game has made them a lot better against vehicles. I say get one because they look cool. I think Hellios brings up an important point, which is: "What are you shooting at?" The Punisher is AP - , so anything with a decent armor save or cover save is not going to be as devastated as say, Orks, IG, non-LRs and softer targets. I have two in my Elysian army and never, ever leave home without them. That being said, because of the Elysian list, I can take Vendettas to help with my AT...well, that and Apoc, which is what I mostly play and therefore, can take whatever I want. Still, a ten man tactical squad will have surprising resilience against the Punisher. Then again, like a lot of others, I feel that IG is all about making them beat the odds. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3628272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 I intend the Vulture to take on mainly infantry but with vector dancer I can also get those shots on the rear armor of other fliers and tanks if nessisary. I do plan on magnetizing the weapons so I can take any armament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3628373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Good plan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3628410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So, Miko, I've been contemplating an avenger for my sisters. It seems that in spite of the fragility, it should be good against other fliers, especially if you give it missiles...? I get that it's only BS3 against other fliers, but still...and against tanks? Yum! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3628527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Good plan. Ha, I just realized that you had already posted pretty much what I said. Great idea. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3628577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So, Miko, I've been contemplating an avenger for my sisters. It seems that in spite of the fragility, it should be good against other fliers, especially if you give it missiles...? I get that it's only BS3 against other fliers, but still...and against tanks? Yum! As long as you get the drop on the enemy, it's an excellent fighter. BS3 does hurt, but you have enough guns to beat the odds. I prefer autocannosn over missile launchers because of the extra shots, but the do require a little luck to get at the enemy's weaker armour facings. ACs aren't bad against AV12, but they aren't perfect. Even the bolt cannon can do some good, though. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288181-i-got-a-dilemma/#findComment-3628776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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