Greyall Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd risk saying we can count on WS5, though Movie Custodes would probably have maybe WS6 (fanboyism alert). Apart from that and maybe BS, I don't think there's any other stat by which Custodes (unless per movie rules) surpass Space marines by 1. Maybe they get a higher save on account of their wargear? Won't risk betting on that, though. What I can see happening is a rule opposite to that of the Night Lords, granting them bonuses for fighting in numerical inferiority. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3626482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A good idea on the inferiority, but I think 40k stats would struggle to convey the finer points of battlelore that is Custodian individual superiority over Astartes just like it fails to portray Ultramarine discipline compared to World Eater savagery. Instead, I expect the differences to be down to gear; something like mastercrafted armour along with halberds granting a defensive/Overwatch bonus so as to represent that effectiveness vs hordes through weight of damage. Not wishing to get into finer points of fan-stats, but exchanging attacks for one attack per base contact would serve brilliantly as a representation of what you suggest; the enemy squad would want to hold a strict line, while the custodian player would want to scatter his custodians as much as possible. Brilliant, if I say so myself :D While GW stumbles at times, I have noticed FW to possess an admirable affinity to take questionable means to arrive at completely satisfactory ends in terms of representing fluff through crunch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3626496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 If you're talking about the attack on a library during Prospero, it wasn't that extreme, there were about a dozen Custodes and three or four times more Thousand Sons, including Terminators and a Sorceror. The Custodians went for a direct assault, followed by a jetbike surprise attack when the TS's numbers turned against the goldies. The Terminators were easily killed, but the Sorcerors boiled a few Custodies alive in their armour. In the end, very few Custodes made it, about three or four, if memory serves. I think it's fair to say they're superior in the [genetic] engineering department, but really, that doesn't count for much in a battle setting. My understanding of the duels between Argel Tal and Aquillion was that, exceptional though the Custodes might have been, he was superior at heart. And don't take the 'don't fight as a unit' too literally. They do, it's just that their individual skill is their greatest weapon, so they make use of it. In the first heretic, that allows almost all of them to take on the Castellax while one (!) holds a corridor alone against the ship's human defenders. you are indeed correct. I had to consult my copy of this as well. Interesting note: their glaves can part terminator armor like its nothing. meaning Ap2 at least on the charge. meaning: master crafted power spears at the very least. maybe paragon blades at the most Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3626700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think paragon blades for perhaps an HQ (Constantin Valdor or Aquillion) and at an outside Sgts - maybe MC-Spears but AP2 for the whole 1st round as opposed to on the charge... that might work without being too OP? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3626820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'm more curious about the aesthetics of Custodes. Will FW go for the slender armour they were first introduced in, as per John Blanche's artwork? Or will they follow the latest artwork in which the Custodes are wearing pretty much Power Armour with no backpacks? I vote for the first, honestly. With lots and lots of armour decoration. Really, make it almost over-the-boardish. People who carve their (hundred) names inside their armour can't be reasonable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3627467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'm more curious about the aesthetics of Custodes. Will FW go for the slender armour they were first introduced in, as per John Blanche's artwork? Or will they follow the latest artwork in which the Custodes are wearing pretty much Power Armour with no backpacks? I really, really hope they stick with Adrian Smith's slender armour http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/5/5c/Custode_Legionaries.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3631400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I think that piece is by Sam Wood, mate ;) Fully agree with you, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3631501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Well that explains why a World Eater was able to punch through it. The armor's paper thin! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3631831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Well that explains why a World Eater was able to punch through it. The armor's paper thin! Lies. Everyone knows that initiates of the world eaters replace their hands with C'tan phase blades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3631843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Although the recent Krios tank makes this a tricky statement, I'd say FW doesn't seem to be into the 'Blanchey' side of30K too much - though his art is always present to a larger or lesser degree. Still, I think this isn't too ceremonial a look for a bodyguard of the Emperor (metal greaves instead of leather ones, but that's a personal choice): http://a401.idata.over-blog.com/4/08/11/33/Legio-Custodes/Custodes-John-Blanche.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think that piece is by Sam Wood, mate Fully agree with you, though. OK, this is by Adrian Smith no? For some reason, I always thought he was the one who came up with the design. Maybe it was Blanche. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/a/a8/Companions.jpg/800px-Companions.jpg Anyway, I much prefer the above to the below http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1365/68/1365685198923.jpg This pot-bellied armour looks even "fatter" than SM armour Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 They can be super duper men if that is what's required to put them in a rightful proportion to Astartes. There is no problem with super duper stat entries, as long as they cost super duper points to field. Remember custodians are superior in almost (?) every way to Astartes, they just weren't as economically viable as our angels of death. So when it comes to one vs the other, my custodian boys can 'pwn' all they want, but the Astartes have conquered societies fielding more pwange and so will continue to do what they do best; gloriously die in victorious battle. Custodates are demi primarchs. They are extremely difficult and inefficient to make. 5's across the statline. (WS, BS, S, T, I) 2 wounds and their staff weapons should be assault 2 volkite shots power lances with ap2 on the charge and ap3 base with rending, with a 2+ artificier armor save and a 5+ invunlerable save (4+ in close combat) with Frag, Krak, Meltabombs, and Defensive grenades. They should cost as much as a GK Paladin though with more points added-but they should be like the 300 Spartans unto the Persians against Any Space Marines not Praetors and Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The older images are much better than the newer book-cover one. Never liked the conical helmets though, seem way too tall for any practical battlefield use. They'd look fine at half the height as long as they kept the plumes. The helmets on the Sam Wood piece are great, the helmets are still high but the face piece is further up than in the John Blanche piece so it doesn't look as bad imo. The Adrian Smith one is in-between the other two, and the cover-art from **can't-remember-the-title** is a distant fourth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Sam Wood's Custodes up there are part of a mural showing the Emperor's own troops, Custodes to one side, Silent ladies to the other. Here are some more of the Custodes, among which the best Custodes Terminator design to have graced our eyes, in my opinion, and some Custodes with the traditional tall helmet. http://i.imgur.com/cIdCe.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yeah, nice get of the terminators to the left. That Constantin Valdor though, always looking so hot, never fails to get me silly. *ahem* Yeah, so what about those Sisters? How similar to the Culexus are they (only read about them in 'Sons/'Burns)? Edit: could the single headed eagle on the Lady's tabard stand for a non-psyker Imperium? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Those eagle flamers and custodes terminators are sexy. I'd get 10 of them for sure if Simon Egan made them like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288190-custodes-vs-astartes-action-at-the-siege-of-terra/page/3/#findComment-3632957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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