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Custodes vs. Astartes action at the Siege of Terra


b1soul

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I'd risk saying we can count on WS5, though Movie Custodes would probably have maybe WS6 (fanboyism alert).

 

Apart from that and maybe BS, I don't think there's any other stat by which Custodes (unless per movie rules) surpass Space marines by 1.

 

Maybe they get a higher save on account of their wargear? Won't risk betting on that, though.

 

What I can see happening is a rule opposite to that of the Night Lords, granting them bonuses for fighting in numerical inferiority.

A good idea on the inferiority, but I think 40k stats would struggle to convey the finer points of battlelore that is Custodian individual superiority over Astartes just like it fails to portray Ultramarine discipline compared to World Eater savagery.

 

Instead, I expect the differences to be down to gear; something like mastercrafted armour along with halberds granting a defensive/Overwatch bonus so as to represent that effectiveness vs hordes through weight of damage.

 

Not wishing to get into finer points of fan-stats, but exchanging attacks for one attack per base contact would serve brilliantly as a representation of what you suggest; the enemy squad would want to hold a strict line, while the custodian player would want to scatter his custodians as much as possible. Brilliant, if I say so myself :D

 

While GW stumbles at times, I have noticed FW to possess an admirable affinity to take questionable means to arrive at completely satisfactory ends in terms of representing fluff through crunch.

If you're talking about the attack on a library during Prospero, it wasn't that extreme, there were about a dozen Custodes and three or four times more Thousand Sons, including Terminators and a Sorceror. The Custodians went for a direct assault, followed by a jetbike surprise attack when the TS's numbers turned against the goldies. The Terminators were easily killed, but the Sorcerors boiled a few Custodies alive in their armour.

 

In the end, very few Custodes made it, about three or four, if memory serves.

 

I think it's fair to say they're superior in the [genetic] engineering department, but really, that doesn't count for much in a battle setting. My understanding of the duels between Argel Tal and Aquillion was that, exceptional though the Custodes might have been, he was superior at heart.

 

And don't take the 'don't fight as a unit' too literally. They do, it's just that their individual skill is their greatest weapon, so they make use of it. In the first heretic, that allows almost all of them to take on the Castellax while one (!) holds a corridor alone against the ship's human defenders.

you are indeed correct. I had to consult my copy of this as well. Interesting note: their glaves can part terminator armor like its nothing. meaning Ap2 at least on the charge. meaning: master crafted power spears at the very least. maybe paragon blades at the most

I think paragon blades for perhaps an HQ (Constantin Valdor or Aquillion) and at an outside Sgts - maybe MC-Spears but AP2 for the whole 1st round as opposed to on the charge... that might work without being too OP?

I'm more curious about the aesthetics of Custodes. Will FW go for the slender armour they were first introduced in, as per John Blanche's artwork? Or will they follow the latest artwork in which the Custodes are wearing pretty much Power Armour with no backpacks?

 

I vote for the first, honestly. With lots and lots of armour decoration. Really, make it almost over-the-boardish. People who carve their (hundred) names inside their armour can't be reasonable.

I'm more curious about the aesthetics of Custodes. Will FW go for the slender armour they were first introduced in, as per John Blanche's artwork? Or will they follow the latest artwork in which the Custodes are wearing pretty much Power Armour with no backpacks?

 

I really, really hope they stick with Adrian Smith's slender armour 

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/5/5c/Custode_Legionaries.jpg

Although the recent Krios tank makes this a tricky statement, I'd say FW doesn't seem to be into the 'Blanchey' side of30K too much - though his art is always present to a larger or lesser degree. Still, I think this isn't too ceremonial a look for a bodyguard of the Emperor (metal greaves instead of leather ones, but that's a personal choice):

 

http://a401.idata.over-blog.com/4/08/11/33/Legio-Custodes/Custodes-John-Blanche.jpg

I think that piece is by Sam Wood, mate msn-wink.gif Fully agree with you, though.

OK, this is by Adrian Smith no? For some reason, I always thought he was the one who came up with the design. Maybe it was Blanche.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/a/a8/Companions.jpg/800px-Companions.jpg

Anyway, I much prefer the above to the below

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1365/68/1365685198923.jpg

This pot-bellied armour looks even "fatter" than SM armour

They can be super duper men if that is what's required to put them in a rightful proportion to Astartes. There is no problem with super duper stat entries, as long as they cost super duper points to field.

 

Remember custodians are superior in almost (?) every way to Astartes, they just weren't as economically viable as our angels of death.

 

So when it comes to one vs the other, my custodian boys can 'pwn' all they want, but the Astartes have conquered societies fielding more pwange and so will continue to do what they do best; gloriously die in victorious battle.

 

Custodates are demi primarchs.  They are extremely difficult and inefficient to make.

 

5's across the statline.  (WS, BS, S, T, I) 2 wounds and their staff weapons should be assault 2 volkite shots power lances with ap2 on the charge and ap3 base with rending, with a 2+ artificier armor save and a 5+ invunlerable save (4+ in close combat) with Frag, Krak, Meltabombs, and Defensive grenades.

 

They should cost as much as a GK Paladin though with more points added-but they should be like the 300 Spartans unto the Persians against Any Space Marines not Praetors and Primarchs.

The older images are much better than the newer book-cover one. Never liked the conical helmets though, seem way too tall for any practical battlefield use. They'd look fine at half the height as long as they kept the plumes.

 

The helmets on the Sam Wood piece are great, the helmets are still high but the face piece is further up than in the John Blanche piece so it doesn't look as bad imo.

 

The Adrian Smith one is in-between the other two, and the cover-art from **can't-remember-the-title** is a distant fourth.

Sam Wood's Custodes up there are part of a mural showing the Emperor's own troops, Custodes to one side, Silent ladies to the other. Here are some more of the Custodes, among which the best Custodes Terminator design to have graced our eyes, in my opinion, and some Custodes with the traditional tall helmet.

 

http://i.imgur.com/cIdCe.jpg

Yeah, nice get of the terminators to the left.

 

That Constantin Valdor though, always looking so hot, never fails to get me silly.

 

*ahem*

 

Yeah, so what about those Sisters? How similar to the Culexus are they (only read about them in 'Sons/'Burns)?

 

Edit: could the single headed eagle on the Lady's tabard stand for a non-psyker Imperium?

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