NeverEnder Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hi all,Apologies if this has been covered recently or im in the wrong place. I was searching the forum for details on how to kit my unit of Havocs, but can't find many, if any lists with them on. Are Oblits/forgefiend/other, that much of a better option for fire support? or are they just a bit unfasionable atm?.I like the idea of 4 Autocannons chugging along at a big unit of whatever is coming towards them. thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't think they have been in favour since 3rd ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't think they have been in favour since 3rd ed A friend of mine swears by them. May I inquire as to what is wrong with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 They were in favour for a little while but then the overwhelming 'net thoughts were obliterators are better. I personally do not agree, Havocs are better in Fortifications. My personal favourite as a firebase is two units of Havocs, 1 8 marines 1 5, the either one unit with autocannons and one with Launchers, or both with ACs. Load them into a Bastion with a Void shield and a Quad cannon and they can make a mess especially if you make your own bastion so you can put the heavy bolters where you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't think they have been in favour since 3rd ed A friend of mine swears by them. May I inquire as to what is wrong with them? I don't think there is anything wrong with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverEnder Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ahh, so they seem more 'forgotten' than lousy?, im going to build them with 4 AC's with a champ. Camp in a building and shoot stuff. cheers fellas and keep the debate coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ahh, so they seem more 'forgotten' than lousy?, im going to build them with 4 AC's with a champ. Camp in a building and shoot stuff. cheers fellas and keep the debate coming the csm heavy support section is filled with lots of good options. Lots of things get forgotten about. Dakka preds with warp flame gargoyles a havoc launcher and combi bolter are cheap and absolutely devastating to most none power armour, low toughness army's like guard and eldar, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Oblits have more take all comers versatility, but you pay for it. Maulerfiends are great in a rush list. Dakkapred and trilas pred are also good for their points, but work better in a mechanism heavy list. Vindicator can be very scary for the points. Defiler and hades/ecto fiends are too Damn pricy. Havocs are good, but can only kill the one thing you designed them to be good at killing. So basically there's lots of good hs choices, but most people (myself included) pick nurgle oblits for adaptable survivable firepower. With oblits you never don't have the right tool for the job so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 AC or LC Havocs are still very cost effective choices. Not flashy but they're solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Oblits have more take all comers versatility, but you pay for it. Maulerfiends are great in a rush list. Dakkapred and trilas pred are also good for their points, but work better in a mechanism heavy list. Vindicator can be very scary for the points. Defiler and hades/ecto fiends are too Damn pricy. Havocs are good, but can only kill the one thing you designed them to be good at killing. So basically there's lots of good hs choices, but most people (myself included) pick nurgle oblits for adaptable survivable firepower. With oblits you never don't have the right tool for the job so to speak. there's no arguing that obliterates are very good and versatile but they also have a very low rate of fire compared to the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverEnder Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 3 nurgle oblits, with a 5 unit of havocs/4 ac's should be quite useable at less than 2k points. get them close together enough to offer covering fire but not close enough to get pie templated and I think they'd offer a nice firebase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 i always use 4 auto cannon havoc squad and a vindicator as my heavys, 2 vindis if points allowed, i have no complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hi all, Apologies if this has been covered recently or im in the wrong place. I was searching the forum for details on how to kit my unit of Havocs, but can't find many, if any lists with them on. Are Oblits/forgefiend/other, that much of a better option for fire support? or are they just a bit unfasionable atm?. I like the idea of 4 Autocannons chugging along at a big unit of whatever is coming towards them. thoughts? The real issue is the lack of a cover save from other armies. There is a fair amount and a lot of it just removes your models. How many times does anyone see a Riptide wtih a Buff Commander running around with it making it twin-linked and ignores cover? I do, ALL THE TIME. This guy will immediatly bury that unit in unsavable wounds, one shot. Better to have Oblits where you get a save and probably will end up only losing one guy to that shot. Makes a giant difference. A lot of it depends on your local "meta", if you do not see things like a buffed up Riptide or Serpent Spam or Heldrakes, then they should work fine. . . If you do however, they are going to be terrible for you so they get ignored. Also part of the issue is the CSM Codex itself, it lends itself to CC and when you are focusing on that you tend to not need Havocs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I like my 4 A/C havocs. I look forward to having them tucked in a Firestorm Redoubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Oblits are nice for that catch all support unit so you're never unable to deal with a threat. I run havocs every single game and the go to is the 4 AC squad. It's unique to us and deliciously fun. For whatever reason I feel havocs are more appropriate in a chaos army than devastators are in a loyalist army. The hype on oblits was only reinforced by our previous codex which made them obligatory units that far outshined our havocs. Despite their numerous weapons it's nice to be able to fire the same weapon every turn consecutively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 That's why I like to put Havocs in a Wall of Martyrs Bunker (and even better with a Quad Gun). Inexpensive, is essentially an immobile AV14 vehicle and no need to worry about any Ignores Cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 What about a normal bastion? (for people playing without stronghold assault?) i heard that 3 broadsides will do insanely in 1 of those, i wonder how 4 AC havocs would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I'll admit that I've never used Havocs before, I've always preferred oblits and dual maulerfiends for my Heavy choices. I will have to try some autocannon Havocs against Eldar, especially with a Crimson Slaughter Divination Sorceror. Prescience alone would be great and if I get lucky with my rolls, granting the Havocs Ignores Cover would be wonderful in taking down Waveserpents with they're crazy cover saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleth Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Something I've seen used by a friend who does Chaos is 4 AC havocs with an ADL with quad gun manned by the champ. This works for him since our eldar player doesn't run Serpent spam, and we don't see much Tau around here. Still it'd give you a lot of AC shots if you wanted to go that route, plus the ADL could offer cover if you wanted to sit back some oblits behind cover as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 What about a normal bastion? (for people playing without stronghold assault?) i heard that 3 broadsides will do insanely in 1 of those, i wonder how 4 AC havocs would. Seems reasonable to me. Remember that the unit inside is Fearless too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 What about a normal bastion? (for people playing without stronghold assault?) i heard that 3 broadsides will do insanely in 1 of those, i wonder how 4 AC havocs would. Seems reasonable to me. Remember that the unit inside is Fearless too. The only problem with the Bastion is that it has at most 2 enclosed firing ports per side through which a total of only 2 models can fire out of (1 per firing port). The other 2 Havocs need to be up top on the Battlements which is only 4+ Cover and not AV14. Though it does have that Heavy Bolter emplacement. The Bunker has 2 enclosed firing ports but through which a total of 8 models can fire out of (4 per firing port). So everyone would be in AV14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montuhotep Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 People seem to use Havocs as Chaos Devestators, forgetting that they can take special weapons as well. Two flamers and two meltaguns, in a ten man squad with a combi-weapon rhino is good for hole-plugging, counter-assault, unit support and the sheer joy of doing a three flamer (with combi) "drive by" on something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Havocs manning an ADL were well thought of for a while following the release of our dex. They put out a respectable amount of firepower for their points cost, and still aren't bad. They've fallen out of favor recently, however, due to the upswing in AP3 large blast, cover ignoring templates since the arrival of TauDar and Inquisition, which makes it just a bit too easy to remove units of them at a time. AP2 S10 long range, cover ignoring templates are much less common, so Nurgle Oblits are far more survivable by comparison, in addition to being more versatile, hence the preference for infantry based heavy support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 AC or LC Havocs are still very cost effective choices. Not flashy but they're solid. Even four MLs will not be sniffed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 What about a normal bastion? (for people playing without stronghold assault?) i heard that 3 broadsides will do insanely in 1 of those, i wonder how 4 AC havocs would. Seems reasonable to me.Remember that the unit inside is Fearless too. The only problem with the Bastion is that it has at most 2 enclosed firing ports per side through which a total of only 2 models can fire out of (1 per firing port). The other 2 Havocs need to be up top on the Battlements which is only 4+ Cover and not AV14. Though it does have that Heavy Bolter emplacement. The Bunker has 2 enclosed firing ports but through which a total of 8 models can fire out of (4 per firing port). So everyone would be in AV14. Isn't it two per window for four total? Fifth fires heavy bolter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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