Hellbrute Formations

[incinerator950]

I'll keep all that in mind.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

cheers for the update, it'll be good to get a few more peoples opinions post game

[incinerator950]

I just noticed something.  The Helbrute in the codex is slightly more expensive than the dataslate.

Which should I be using?

[Scribe]

The dataslate, the helbrute in the codex is 5 points up because they forgot they removed the combi bolter from the model.

 

EDIT: Its been FAQed btw.

[Sception]

Dataslate. See also the csm faq on the gw site - it was one of the last few before gw just stopped doing them. Basically, the brute was supposed to be 100 pts instead of 105, since you have to pay extra for the combi bolter. They probably wouldn't have changed it, except the non-english print runs all had the correct cost.

 

Other changes of note: blastmasters are 1 per 5 noise marines, noise marine champs have ubergrit, and the heldrake's weapon is on a turret mount, not a hull mount as would otherwise be the default.

[Tenebris]

I agree, in the italian version of the codex the Helbrute cost is as it should be, 100 points base. 

[Iron_Within]

Has anyone tried out the formations and willing divulge experiences?

[Nehekhare]

frontline BR helbrutes vs. knights

[Scribe]

Brain shut off as soon as I saw the 3 Knights.

[daboarder]

I like team0comps bat reps, they dont sugar coat that they are playing competitive but they are willing to try more than just netlisting.

[Xenith]

Scribe of Khorne, on 26 Mar 2014 - 06:26, said:

Brain shut off as soon as I saw the 3 Knights.

It was an interesting game. the more telling part wasn't that the dude was using 3 knights, but that they were unpainted, backed up by unpainted Grey Hands.

[the jeske]

Good thing he took the drake . No idea why he was rolling for pining , Ld tests for cultists units taken from the cult formation.

[Sception]

He took a meyhem pack, not a cult. Those were regular cultists.

 

regardless of the number or color of knights on display, it is a decent example of what can go wrong if you rely on a meyhem pack to take out specific targets. Without mitigation they can mishap, or scatter out of ideal melta range. With only a single, non-twin-linked m.melta shot, they can just miss, or fail to do enough damage to matter. I'm not sure if they remembered to roll for crazed, they didn't mention it, but they can roll punchy instead of shooty the turn they land and stand around doing nothing. And while iwnd is cute, and I'm cartainly not complaining about it, the fact is that dreads tend to skip straight to dead without stoppjng at merely injured.

 

I'm not saying they're bad per sey, but if you need something specific dead, you're still better off with oblits and drakes. They seem like a fun formation to play, but they are meyhem squads, not assassination squads.

[Brother Ambroz]

If a punchy result is rolled on the turn they DS wouldn't that count as immobilized thus becoming a shooty result instead?

[Sception]

They're not immobilized (they can run, and in fact count as having moved - arrival was their movement), they just can't charge, and iirc (afb), there's no provision for simply being unable to charge.

 

If being unable to charge did turn punchy results into shooty results, they'd actually be a lot better, as you'd have a pretty reliable 2/3 chance of double shots, with a 0/3 chance of standing around like a doof doing nothing the turn you arrived.  Heck, deep striking dakkadreads would be tempting at that point.

 

But no.

[the jeske]

But why would anyone take the M formation , it scatters , they can't charge , get crazy and may not shot even if you give them shoty weapons . the M in it probably stands for masochists , as in people that use it .

[Sception]

It's an alternative to termicide which some run, with a wider functional scatter range for it's anti-tank configuration.

 

In general, though, yeah, as days go on, the luster of the meyhem pack is pretty quickly fading for me.  It's just super unreliable, and even when they do land on target and successfully shoot their weapons, it just doesn't have the impact needed to justify itself on that initial offensive burst alone, while also lacking the durability for cost needed to be useful distractions, particularly given that they're showing up T2 at best, and half the time T3 or later.

 

The helfist has risen slightly in my estimation, but remains too expensive for what it brings to the table.

 

The cult remains a pretty sweet option.

[Excessus]

frontline BR helbrutes vs. knights

So basically, the Helbrutes did nothing while the Oblits and Heldrake were effective. I recognize this from somewhere, hmm...

[Nehekhare]

too randumb.

[Aragantes]

The fluff is also really good.  I like what they came up with to distinguish helbrutes from loyalist dreads.  Legion fans may also like this dataslate.  While there aren't legion specific rules in the formations, several of the legions are mentioned in the fluff, including that night lords and alpha legion favor the use of mayhem packs (the former for the terror they cause, the latter for the distraction and disruption they provide), or that word bearers favor the helcult.  They also go into how the appearance of the brutes and the course of their mutation reflects the forces that used them, calling out death guard brutes amalgamations of corroded metal and bloated corpulent flesh, while the word bearers decorate the hulls of their brutes, turning them into 'crimson armored shrines'.

 

Sadly, I was expecting more mention of the iron warriors, and the only thing I could find was a single cultist painted up in iron warriors colors.

The story of combat from the perspective of a Helbrute was a IW brute.

[incinerator950]

But why would anyone take the M formation , it scatters , they can't charge , get crazy and may not shot even if you give them shoty weapons . the M in it probably stands for masochists , as in people that use it .

I was under the distinct impression anyone who has managed to play Chaos for the last few years are masochists in general.

 

I'm reading the comments for the battle.  It's surprising most people still don't know that Knights are supposed to be in squadrons.  Even so, I guess I'm just not used to the blur that regular 40k is just turning into smaller apoc.  Hard counters that are budget killers and all that.

[totgeboren]

Just a thought. You roll for crazed "at the start of the Movement phase". If the Dread deep strikes, is he on the table at the start of the movement phase? I'm away on a business trip and I don't have access to the rules, so if someone could help me out that would be great! :)

[Nehekhare]

it's a little unclear. deepstriking occurs in the movement phase, so after the crazed roll. But then the dataslate says you roll once for the formation and apply the crazed result: RAW they don't have to be on the table for the roll and still suffer the results of that roll. 

[Nusquam]

Just a thought. You roll for crazed "at the start of the Movement phase". If the Dread deep strikes, is he on the table at the start of the movement phase? I'm away on a business trip and I don't have access to the rules, so if someone could help me out that would be great!

Correct, just like psychic powers

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So if we go with this interpretation -- I agree with it; not arguing the point, just commenting -- then the turn they deep strike in, they're not going to suffer/benefit from the effects of the Crazed roll?