Erren Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Working on my starter force for HH. Just using the standard Legion rules, but trying to get some DA flavor in there, too (Mortis dreads, access to choice equipment, speeders). HQ Master of Signal -Artificer Armour ELITE Apothecarion Detachment -2 apothecaries, these go with the tactical squads Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought -2 TLLC Legion Rapier Weapons Battery -2 Laser Destroyer Array TROOPS Legion Tactical Squad -15 men, Vexilla, Sergeant has Artificer Armour, Power Axe, and Meltabombs Legion Tactical Squad -15 men, Vexilla, Sergeant has Artificer Armour, Power Axe, and Meltabombs Legion Tactical Support Squad -10 men, Volkite Calivers, Sergeant has Artificer Armour and Augury Scanner FAST ATTACK Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron -2 speeders HEAVY SUPPORT Legion Sicaran Battle Tank -Lascannon sponsons, Armoured Ceramite FORTIFICATION Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker -Ammo Store, Escape Hatch (for anyone who doesn't have the rules for this, it's AV14 with room for 8 people to shoot out the front; the support squad and master of signal stay here) IMPERIAL KNIGHT DETACHMENT Knight Paladin TOTAL 2000 points The support squad stays in the rear with the artillery and dreadnought. The knight and sicaran race up the board as needed, clearing room for the two tactical squads. The two speeders use their mobility to apply force where most needed. Here's some of my concerns: I had 20 points left over, so I added a 10th man to the support squad, but I'm sure that could be better used. I'm not sure Cylone Missile Launcher is the best armament for the Javelins. I haven't ordered them yet, and they're expensive enough I don't want to make a mistake. I like the artillery and I already have it painted. I want to use it. I really want to field a knight! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288332-dark-angels-2000-pts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I like it. I haven't tried using Javelins, but I've had a few thoughts on them. One of them is making use of their ability to outflank and fitting them with CML + 2 HK Missiles, and going for a 4 krak missile alpha strike on the side armor of some predators/artillery/contemptors/something. I don't know quite how well it would work, but it's a similar idea to how a Primaris Lightning with Kraken missiles might operate. Just cheaper. But also less effective. My main concern is that the Javelin is still a very fragile unit. It costs twice what a Rhino does while having one fewer hullpoint and the same armor layout. Sure, jink saves, but that can't be relied on. Not when there seems to be a Sicaran lurking around every corner. If you decide to keep them in the list, split them up into two fast attack choices so you can at least force your enemy to waste an entire squad/vehicle's fire on killing one of them. I'm a little against armored ceramite for Sicarans. I like it better on Spartans and Land Raiders, where it will prevent a meltagun from penning at all and is a relatively smaller portion of the base cost. On a Sicaran, the AV is still low enough that a meltagun doesn't need two dice to get a pen. It's good to keep in mind that for as much firepower as a Sicaran has it is not actually any hard to kill from the front than a Predator. Also, everyone 'knows' that with armored ceramite around, melta is useless. If you feel really sneaky, don't bring armored ceramite because you don't expect your opponent to bring any melta because what idiot wouldn't buy armored ceramite. These two points are just laying the groundwork for, "If you drop both Javelins and the armored ceramite off the Sicaran, you can bring a second Sicaran." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288332-dark-angels-2000-pts/#findComment-3627038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 You raise a good point on the armoured ceramite. Taking out that and the extra support squad guy who can't fire from the firepoint anyways saves me 40 points. I could certainly drop the javelins and grab a 2nd sicaran, and that would be solid. I just feel like I'm starting to lose some of my legion's flavor in doing so. I don't want to put in Terminators because I feel certain that DA will get a unique terminator unit in book 5. Bikes in their current incarnation are horribly overpriced. I feel like Jetbikes have a hard time deciding what they want to be. A volkite upgrade means that you'll at least have a unity of purpose to the unit (high-ish strength, high AP), but who really needs expensive means of delivering heavy bolters in 30k? Regular legion landspeeders aren't even remotely exciting. Maybe if they could at least mount a graviton cannon... So from things in existing DA fluff, that doesn't leave much. I could put in some plasma with a predator executioner or support squad, and I might get a squadron of predators at some point. I feel I'm capturing some of that "easier access to advanced technology" with the volkite, sicaran, and contemptor. Reading the Knight fluff, I'm hoping that there's some links at some point between house Krast (first Knight world discovered) and the First Legion. DA also have a nice history with Mortis dreads, but I've already got that. I don't know that I want another yet, especially since the DA-specific contemptor is probably years away from release. DA have a decent history of crappy veteran squads, which the legion list also has, but I don't know that that's a good reason to include it in my list. Other than 40 floating points, I like the list a lot I think. I think CML is the way to go on Javelins rather than lascannons. There's lots of ways to get lascannons in 30k, and I have quite a few. Keeping the speeders cheap and more versatile seems the better option. I might magnetize the model for HKM and MM, but it seems like one of the better ways around to inject a DA feel to a list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288332-dark-angels-2000-pts/#findComment-3627170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Well, regular Speeders can mount a graviton gun and you can buy a pack of those from FW, so there's really not much work to be done in converting. And tbh I think regular Speeders are a viable option, 30k or 40k. People tend to underestimate them, and here you can have a squadron of up to 5. It's not something a DA player should dismiss entirely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288332-dark-angels-2000-pts/#findComment-3628477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Alright so the 1st Legion was the master of all combat. They were autonomous for a long time before they even found the Lion. Do not pigeon hole yourself into the mindset that 1st Legion must have X and Y. I'm not and neither is FW. The First Legion is extremely diverse as opposed to what people think of Dark Angels today. My rough list as of now is this no points values as I'm at work. Praetor -Artificer, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo 5 man Company Command Squad- 2 poweraxes, 3 power swords. 2x apothecaries 1x mortis contemptor dread, dual lascannons 1x 10 terminator squad, 2 autocannons, powerfists on all -Spartan Dedicated Transport 2x 15 man tactical squad - combat weapons, vexilla, sgt with power sword and artifice armor Storm Eagle- MM Fire Raptor 2x Sicarans with lascannon sponsons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288332-dark-angels-2000-pts/#findComment-3629355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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