Rhino Rush vs Drop Pod in current meta

[minigun762]

I'm back and forth on what sounds like a smarter decision.

Interceptor fish faces kill one, pointy earred transports kill the other.

 

Looking for something to work along side a small airforce but both have merit. Reserve heavy army with pods or armor saturation with Rhinos.

 

Thoughts?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think your Chapter Tactics make a big difference here, though.  Iron Hands will want the AV to capitalize on IWND, as will Raven Guard so they get something out of Scout.  Sallies and, to a lesser extent I think, Ultramarines would do better with lots of pods since they both have abilities that work really well on the drop.

 

Overall, though, I have to throw my hat in with Rhino Rush, supported by a pod or three.  There's too many Tau or Tau-as-allies armies out there, which means there's enough Interceptor to make any mass-drop a waste.

[d@n]

Yes I would agree that it comes down to chapter tactics. Ultra marines, imperial fists, space wolves and to a lesser extent black Templars do well with drop pods were as blood angels iron hands and raven guard do well with rhinos.

[Ming]

As dangerous as the meta is today, with alot of points being drained away into key "deathstar" units, I'm seeing Rhino rush lists as sub-par to drop pods lists, period. I'd rather have the opportunity to suicide-drop right on the opponent than be shot up on the drive/walk there.

 

I'm playing a list variant that has a strong firebase, a pod-centered core, and then skimmers/flyers for mobil support. Three wings of a combined arms approach. It has been very successful. i had a game two weeks ago where I had to reduce the list a bit, and then I swapped out the pods for rhinos...that was a bad idea...the Rhinos were mostly lost on the first turn (Tau!), and I had to hoof it across the board to get into the gunline. Not a nice time. If the Pods had remained, I'd have combat squaded every unit to create more tragets, survived the interceptor, and then eliminated key enemy units to swing the battle to my favor.

 

In the game this week (vs Crimson Slaughter / Nurgle chaos marines) I went back to the pods and original variant list and was winning turn 5 to the end. A whimsical moment was a Sternguard sergeant survivor rambling around in the Chaos deployment zone causing the Chaos player to spend assets to hunt him down. That started on turn 1, and the "hunt" for my sergeant ended on Turn 7...

 

Overall for marines, Pods are more fluffy, useful, and flexible.

[minigun762]

I hate makings decisions solely based on CT but I see the importance in this situation. Definitely an angle I need to consider more.

[IK Viper]

I play Ravenguard/Whitescars CT and this allows Scout for Rhinos.  I would advocate, specially with the CT's that I use, Rhinos over D. Pods.  Rhinos allow mobility turn after turn and can be massed all at once rather than coming down in pieces.  

 

Rhinos offer the option of when and where to get out, D. Pods do not give you this option.  There is nowhere to hide when a Helldrake comes calling when running D. Pods.  You can also redeploy in a Rhino but in a Pod once you are down, your basically not going farther then a few feet from that pod for the rest of the game.  Rhinos also block LOS which can be really good, specially against gunline armies. 

 

FMC's are way to strong in this edition and one of the stupid things they get is Vector Strikes that require no roll to hit, wound easily, are AP3 and Ignore Cover (becasue no one is obviously smart enough to duck befind a wall in 40k)  D. Pods give no protection against these 0 skill, 0 downside fly over attacks, Rhinos atleast offer a layer of protection.  Also, D. Pods have no way to control when they come in.  Some times it is not to your advantage to come down in the teeth of the enemy turn 1. If you're in Pods you have NOT CONTROL of when you come down.  Much better to have control over when you attack. 

 

A dedicated pod army can basically only play one way... and that makes it really predicatable. 

 

The downside of Rhinos is obviously that if they die on your side of the table your guys are stuck.  Rhinos need Scout/Outflank to get forward safely, or you need to be really careful about where you put them in the early game to prevent your mostly close range marine units from getting stuck in the back.  

[SyNidus]

I'm throwing my hat in with Drop Pods. I've been running drop pods since 5th and I have to say, time and again, they've worked wonders.

 

Even now, in spite of interceptor, my drop pod tacticals have consistently proven their worth. The sheer number of bodies I can drop in the opponent's face is insane. I'm running 5 drop pods, if i want I can pod 30 marines right at opponent's doorstep. Even with interceptor, they will be hard pressed to move that many marines.

 

As for turn after turn mobility, you just need to get creative. It's not so much about being able to move all around the board as it is a matter of pre-planning and positioning. Because when you really think about it, there are some places where your marines don't have to reach. Example, if an objective is in the centre of the board, you don't need to have to mobility to reach every corner of the board with your pod squads. You may have mobile/long range elements which would be able to do what you need to do in that part of the board.

 

I would also disagree that pod armies lack flexibility. It might be less obvious, but if built correctly, you can achieve the same level of flexibility. The common misconception of pod armies is that you always want to deepstrike right in the opponent's face, but that is just one way (Aggressive Podding). However this is not always the case. Particularly against very mobile armies like Eldar, I usually pod defensively. I use the pods, along with existing terrain to block LOS and create choke points and kill zones. The playstyle there is not to go to where your opponent is but to make him go where you want him to go, I would argue this is more easily done with drop pods than with rhinos because drop pods have an extra point of armour. Furthermore, they can essentially deploy anywhere on the board without having to worry about getting shot up on the way.

 

With my army, I can play even more defensively than that, by dropping 3 empty pods on turn one (2 tacticals dropping in later and the third squad being carried in my stormraven). A drop pod army can always react to enemy deployment, something which rhinos, even with scout, is unable to do as well.

 

These are things that I can't do as effectively with a rhino rush army, eventhough I always play with RG CTs and I should be taking advantage of the scout USR, I don't need to.

[VoteForPedro]

I prefer Drop Pods personally, they get my units where they need to be. Saying that, Sentinels of Terra chapter tactics heavily favour drop pods so I'm biased!

 

On the topic of Interceptor I don't think it's quite at bad as this thread is suggesting. For one, Drop Pods let you spread out a lot more than standard deep strike. As Interceptor occurs at the end of your moving phase you've got ample opportunity to scatter.

 

Secondly there is only so much Interceptor fire you'll be facing. Riptide typically have it but even then the pie plate should only be hitting 2/3 models. High Yield Missile Pods are the big no no to land near but then with decent placement and los terrain you can be ok. Plus, they can't fire them in their turn if they intercept. Double Plasma Rifle Crisis Suits with Interceptor would be horrifically lethal... but then nobody really uses them outside of list tailoring!

[thepowerofwar]

I side with the pods as well.  Atm I am running 7 pods and with that many units and the variety of them I can tailor what  my drops are according to what I am facing.  

[minigun762]

I side with the pods as well.  Atm I am running 7 pods and with that many units and the variety of them I can tailor what  my drops are according to what I am facing.  

 

Do you feel you have a lack of mobility after you land? Or does it not matter since you're already where you want to be. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Both aren't worth the time or investment.

 

Rhinos can stop you shooting when you disembark, the 'rush' is easily stopped by Servo Skulls *anyone* can take, and just about every unit in the game can now kill a Rhino, by looking at it funny.

 

Drop Pods get murdered by Interceptor (and Riptides), Coteaz and Warp Quake.

 

Don't face anyone that has any of those units above (or you disallow Codex: Inquisition, Tau, Grey Knights and possibly Stronghold Assault) then go nuts.  I guess.

 

The defacto transports this edition are currently Fliers.  Well StormRaven.

 

Unless you're the Eldar that is.

[SyNidus]

I think with drop pods the lack of mobility that you feel is only if you don't plan things out properly...I.e. If you don't where you need to be by turn 5. E.g. With my army, I tend to deploy any objectives I have to place in the opponent's side or closer to the centre, this way there is little reason for them to come to my side, thus I protect my firebase and I also automatically have my units where I need them to be to capture objectives.

 

Or if I want to play defensively I place the objectives closer to the centre and have my pods create cover and terrain I'm the centre to slow down the opponent's advance.

 

As I said before, it takes abit of creativity, but I feel you can do more with pods than rhinos.

[templargdt]

I don't use either, I've gone to Scouts as my troop choice in this edition.  If I had to choose, I'd go pod.  You won't always face triple riptide with interceptor.  Alternatively, you could use a couple Land Raiders or Storm Ravens.   

[Captain Idaho]

Both aren't worth the time or investment.

 

Rhinos can stop you shooting when you disembark, the 'rush' is easily stopped by Servo Skulls *anyone* can take, and just about every unit in the game can now kill a Rhino, by looking at it funny.

 

Drop Pods get murdered by Interceptor (and Riptides), Coteaz and Warp Quake.

 

Don't face anyone that has any of those units above (or you disallow Codex: Inquisition, Tau, Grey Knights and possibly Stronghold Assault) then go nuts.  I guess.

 

The defacto transports this edition are currently Fliers.  Well StormRaven.

 

Unless you're the Eldar that is.

I disagree good sir.

 

The units with Interceptor are most definitely a problem.

 

However there are ways round it. Consider what the danger Interceptor units are; Riptides and Broadsides. So have options like Iron Clads who aren't particular scared of a S8 blast and drop multiple units down at once.

 

Consider Combat Squads. 2 units dropping down can split into 4 squads which instantly makes it difficult to counter with the usual pairing of 2 Riptides, who won't be shooting next turn either to boot.

 

So far I've not seen Grey Knights as the cheesey list in 6th who will obliterate opponents so dropping further away is actually beneficial if you want to beat them.

 

Cortez... yes he's just cheesey. But who he's with is important and being further away is perhaps the best bet.

[Gentlemanloser]

:)

 

Don't forget Red Hunters.

 

If Coteaz + Grav Centurion don't get to IBEY your Drop Pods, then the RH can fire up  Mnemonic Redaction Protocols to grant 1+ Squads of theirs Interceptor.

 

 

At the end of the day, if Coteaz has forced you to deploy further back (and potentially out of Melta / Rapid Fire range), he's done his job.

 

Just like the Servo Skulls.

 

 

To be honest, I can give no reason to why *everyone* doesn't take at least a bare Inquisitor with 3 Skulls in every signle list.  34 points to stop any Bike/Scout/Infiltrate army dead in it's track at deployment?

 

That's got to be a done deal, even if you'r enot tailoring lists.

[Captain Idaho]

Hard to not take admittedly though lack of a place to hide said character can be a challenge.

 

Red Hunters not a problem for me to factor in. I play in tournaments often so usually I face people who don't take such things as FW Chapters. After all, if they want to look at multiple tournaments they need to consider if their chosen list is appropriate... ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

Hard to not take admittedly though lack of a place to hide said character can be a challenge.

As Battle Brothers to just about everyone who can take them, as long as you're not trying to hide them in a vehicle, there shouldn't be too much of an issue sticking them in a Sqaud.

They provide Stubborn and a 3W meat shield.

Red Hunters not a problem for me to factor in. I play in tournaments often so usually I face people who don't take such things as FW Chapters. After all, if they want to look at multiple tournaments they need to consider if their chosen list is appropriate...

Those dang tournament restrictions! ;)

It's quite possible that the entire Codex: Inquisition (and even Riptides / Wave Serpents) are banned, if we're looking at restrictions and comps.

[Captain Idaho]

It's certainly a new era but I think most things with the label "Codex" are safe, barring perhaps Imperial Knights.

[Gentlemanloser]

Maybe a reason why 'supplement' has been dropped for 'codex'.

 

As surely Codex: Crimson Slaughter should actually have been a Codex: Chaos Marine Supplement...  (And the upcoming Codex: piglatin Stormtroopers.  Which should be an IG supplement.)

[VoteForPedro]

Maybe a reason why 'supplement' has been dropped for 'codex'.

 

As surely Codex: Crimson Slaughter should actually have been a Codex: Chaos Marine Supplement...  (And the upcoming Codex: piglatin Stormtroopers.  Which should be an IG supplement.)

 

Not to be picky but Crimson Slaughter was a supplement,

 

I don't disagree with your point though, it does seem like they are shifting towards badge-ing things as a Codex to legitimize them.

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440206a&prodId=prod2380172a

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah!

 

Thanks. :)

[hallodx]

All my books and models are now miles away from me but I believe you can find something like "Codex: blahblahblah, a Warhammer 40,000 supplement" somewhere in your books, so banning supplements is not a good idea lol

[SyNidus]

Anyway, back on topic gentlemen.

 

Does anyone have 6th ed rhino rush experiences that they could share? I know it's got potential, especially with RG chapter traits, but what about other people.

[Armfelt]

I play mostly team tournaments, and with IG-player as my ally, our armies have been most synchronized with rhinos. He have a hard time to support me when I use drop pods.

This way he can use cheap infantry and I can use cheap vehicles. Iron hands tactics and MoF is quite nice too.

Rhinos are great as LoS blockers.

[minigun762]

Rhinos are also immune to reserve rolls, assuming you start them on the board.

 

I do have a concern of drop pods being too piecemeal