Which Traitor Primarch do you think regretted it the most?

[Sith’ari]

We're assuming that the gods had left Horus permanently. All they had to do was temporarily withdraw and outlast an already mortally wounded Big E.

 

Or say the gods had been permanently banished and Big E forgave Horus, what then? Dorn would have kicked in the door, seen Horus crouching over the Emperor's shattered body, go rage-mode and proceed to Falcon punch Horus so hard, he'd have met the hive fleets on his way to the next galaxy.

 

Either way, Emps was right to blast him!

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah think Dorn would of ripped Horus a new one, after fighting Sanguinius and the Emperor I'd say Dorn had the ability to finish him off.

[no I'm alpharius]

That would have been far more ironic. 

 

Horus: "What have I done"

Emps: "Son, I forgive you ... "

A single tear forms in the corner of Horus' eye

Dorn: RAEG

Horus: "bugger"

[Sanct]

That would have been far more ironic.

Horus: "What have I done"

Emps: "Son, I forgive you ... "

A single tear forms in the corner of Horus' eye

Dorn: RAEG

Horus: "bugger"

I think this holds a more beautifully tragic end to the Heresy and would set up Dorn for interesting post-Heresy self destructive tendancies (the pain cage? Eternal Fortress? hmmm)

Buuuuut GW/BL editors might want it written differently.

Horus: "What have I done"

Emps: "Son, I forgive you ... "

A single tear forms in the corner of Horus' eye

Dorn: RAEG

Horus: "bugger"

The Emps: "What have you done? What were you afraid of?"

Dorn: "but he had betrayed us all. Look at Sangy..."

The Emps: "He was a Chosen One. He could have helped save my vision for I have seen our future and it is dead!"

Dorn: "Noone can know"

The Emps: "bugger"

Gets my vote

[Castrmen Orth]

Did the horus clones act like him or where they empty shells

[Conn Eremon]

I don't believe we really know, on that account. It's described in the Black Legion supplement, but is rather vague on the nature of the clones themselves. They are described as "ghoulish reflections" and "vile abominations," but is noted that there was a "prime clone" slain by Abaddon himself.

 

But in spite of those descriptions, the clones could have been perfect copies for all we know. For what the Legion was becoming, for what the mindset of Abaddon, an exact replica of Horus could be seen as a vile abomination, a ghoulish reflection of a past they are overcoming.

 

Or they could have been mutated freaks that made Chaos Spawn look pretty. They were experiments of Fabius Bile after all.

[Castrmen Orth]

Just curious as i had heard in the fluff that abaddon killed them all.

 

Was just a little shocked that abaddon was capable of this feat.

[Conn Eremon]

It could be that he was already getting juiced quite a bit. Or that they were inferior clones.

 

Or that newborn Horus-4a, who celebrated learning how to walk today, just couldn't bring his Primarchy powers to bear on a Terminator-clad and 'roid-raging Abaddon.

[Castrmen Orth]

Yeah there's gonna have to be some kind of limiting factor.

 

We get told how far above space marines a primarch is that its hard to imagine one killing a primarch

[Sith’ari]

Maybe the clones had a vague recollection of what the real Horus had done to the galaxy and were caught up in their own grief, completely unwilling to become the monster the traitor legions desired to lead them once again.

 

Perhaps that was their flaw and why Abbadon killed them.

[Wade Garrett]

Yeah there's gonna have to be some kind of limiting factor.

 

We get told how far above space marines a primarch is that its hard to imagine one killing a primarch

Only if you can't imagine an old near mortal in a swagged out set of Terminator plate.

 

Who just HAD to take a time out for evil monologuing instead of slitting Guilliman's throat.

 

Goshdarnit, Kor!

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah there's gonna have to be some kind of limiting factor.

 

We get told how far above space marines a primarch is that its hard to imagine one killing a primarch

Remember, it wasn't just Abaddon, all by his lonesome. He had the XVI Legion core of his Black Legion warband with him, who were actively killing clones as well. All we know is that Abaddon killed the prime clone. It might have been a duel, in which case Wade's point might apply, or it might have been alongside his forces, in which case Lorgar's point about the Night of the Wolf might apply.

[Sanct]

 

Yeah there's gonna have to be some kind of limiting factor.

 

We get told how far above space marines a primarch is that its hard to imagine one killing a primarch

Remember, it wasn't just Abaddon, all by his lonesome. He had the XVI Legion core of his Black Legion warband with him, who were actively killing clones as well. All we know is that Abaddon killed the prime clone. It might have been a duel, in which case Wade's point might appliy, or it might have been alongside his forces, in which case Porter's point about the Night of the Wolf might apply.

 

Exactly this.

In the same way, it may have been Abaddon's Black Crusades but I pretty sure he wasn't mincing about assaulting the Imperium all by his lonesome

[infyrana]

I take back my previous comment - apparently according to recent authors, Mortarion doesn't seem to regret it, and actually wanted to become a daemon - weird.

 

Oh well, maybe Horus might have regretted it at the end when he realised Chaos wasn't as loyal to him as he hoped.  But still, I see that he did a lot of things, and he was the director for a lot of it, pushing the button to do the killing if you like, I sympathise very little with him over my sympathy for Mortarion and his forced turn to nurgle to save his crew.

[Carach]

so morty, who despised sorcery stuff.. wanted to actively delve into the sorcery stuff that is required to become a daemon?

 

lame. Having him being regretful and then being mugged off by His no.1 son would of been far better. 

[Perrin]

To be fair there is 2 years of undocumented character development to come for Morty, so that should shed some light on why he changes his mind on sorcery.

 

I mean two years in-universe by the way, as Scars is set 2 years before Vengeful Spirit.

[Valkyrion]

Lorgar, without a doubt for me. 

All Lorgar wanted to do was worship the emperor and the emperor denied him that, so he had to worship something else, something not necessarily worthy of such devotion compared to the emperor, but wanted worship nonetheless. 

 

For example, you really want chinese food, but locally all the chinese take aways are shut, because it's Monday in the northwest of england and apparently Monday is no chinese food day. But you really want chinese food. Like, kill for it. So you ring every chinese within a 20 mile radius of your home, because you need chinese food. Eventually you get one and it takes an hour to get to you. By this time it's midnight and there's nothing on TV so you're watching reruns of Mock The Week full of three year old satire you'd already forgotten about. Just as you're about to nod off there's a knock at the door and a taxi driver takes twenty quid off you in return for a pile of indeterminate mush. It's definitely chinese mush, because that's what you ordered, but where your normal quarter crispy duck pancakes actually looks like it once belonged to a pond faring bird, this thing in front of you is actually staring back.

Hungry, tired and twenty quid lighter you think 'I might as well' and dive head first into it. 

It's not the best thing in the world, but it fills a hole. 

You go to bed replete and too tired to notice the churning in your gut.

 

At 4am, you regret that duck.

 

That is what Lorgar thinks every day. If he'd have just had Coco Pops for tea one night instead of needing a chinese when all the chinese were shut none of this would have happened.

 

Admittedly it's not the best analogy, but I had really bad chinese food last night and again this morning. Instead of worshipping chinese food I should just respect that they deserve days off too and have cheese on toast instead.

 

With beans on.

[Relic of Dorn]

Lorgar, without a doubt for me. 

All Lorgar wanted to do was worship the emperor and the emperor denied him that, so he had to worship something else, something not necessarily worthy of such devotion compared to the emperor, but wanted worship nonetheless. 

 

For example, you really want chinese food, but locally all the chinese take aways are shut, because it's Monday in the northwest of england and apparently Monday is no chinese food day. But you really want chinese food. Like, kill for it. So you ring every chinese within a 20 mile radius of your home, because you need chinese food. Eventually you get one and it takes an hour to get to you. By this time it's midnight and there's nothing on TV so you're watching reruns of Mock The Week full of three year old satire you'd already forgotten about. Just as you're about to nod off there's a knock at the door and a taxi driver takes twenty quid off you in return for a pile of indeterminate mush. It's definitely chinese mush, because that's what you ordered, but where your normal quarter crispy duck pancakes actually looks like it once belonged to a pond faring bird, this thing in front of you is actually staring back.

Hungry, tired and twenty quid lighter you think 'I might as well' and dive head first into it. 

It's not the best thing in the world, but it fills a hole. 

You go to bed replete and too tired to notice the churning in your gut.

 

At 4am, you regret that duck.

 

That is what Lorgar thinks every day. If he'd have just had Coco Pops for tea one night instead of needing a chinese when all the chinese were shut none of this would have happened.

 

Admittedly it's not the best analogy, but I had really bad chinese food last night and again this morning. Instead of worshipping chinese food I should just respect that they deserve days off too and have cheese on toast instead.

 

With beans on.

 

HAHAHAHA!!!! It may not be the best, but it is well worth the read.

[Wade Garrett]

Again, I would like a source on this notion that Lorgar has spent every day for the last ten thousand years crying about the Heresy.

 

He certainly didn't seem to regret much in Betrayer .

 

On topic:

 

Rogal Dorn is a strong contender for the most regretful Traitor. After sticking the Emperor in the Golden Throne so that he could never revive as a Perpetual or be reborn as god of Humanity, his guilt drove him to attempt suicide by Iron Warrior, then to successfully commit suicide by Black Crusade.

[Castrmen Orth]

Did the emperor just forget he was a perpetual when he decided to be stuck in the golden throne?

[Conn Eremon]

Did the emperor just forget he was a perpetual when he decided to be stuck in the golden throne?

Maybe. Maybe he didn't forget that Perpetuals could still die permanent deaths.

[Monstra Sumus]

Or maybe he was so bashed about he couldn't tell Dorn to just tuck him up in bed instead, we won't really know til they cover it in the books. 

[Perrin]

Maybe because the Emperor is a bunch of Perpetuals glued together, actually dying may cause him to become 'unstuck' as it were.

 

That's assuming the shaman were Perpetuals.

 

Also do Perpetuals age? Do they die of old age and come back young again or are they just stuck at a specific age forever?

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Horus, by a squillion miles. Like, the series ends at the moment he realises he's been duped and he massively regrets it all. That's pretty telling.

We'll hold you to that. Make sure it's written so that even the most macho reader quietly weeps on reading the moment that Horus sees the error of his ways or else this thread shall come back to haunt you.

Currently they're all daemon princes (except possibly Alpharius/Omegon) so it's really hard to judge whether they now see it as worth it, or whether they wish they were still Primarchs.

I think they all regret losing, and they spend most of their time moping around in their various strongholds, but they are now immortal, worshipped as gods and (possibly) much stronger than they were when they were Primarchs. Being daemons I'm not sure they see the Long War in the same way that Abaddon and other traitors marines might.

Alpharius/Omegons plans have obviously failed, and they haven't become daemons, so they probably regret it a lot. If they're alive, or if their plan actually did fail?

Since we do not know their plan, we can only assume that they did succeed, but didn't bother to tell anybody else (or each other).

[Ada]

Again, I would like a source on this notion that Lorgar has spent every day for the last ten thousand years crying about the Heresy.

He certainly didn't seem to regret much in Betrayer .

On topic:

Rogal Dorn is a strong contender for the most regretful Traitor. After sticking the Emperor in the Golden Throne so that he could never revive as a Perpetual or be reborn as god of Humanity, his guilt drove him to attempt suicide by Iron Warrior, then to successfully commit suicide by Black Crusade.

Isn't there a part in the book where he has the realisation that Guilliman didn't actually hate him or take any joy in destroying Monarchia as he'd thought was the case?

 

Small seeds of doubt perhaps suggesting that BL could be taking him in that sort of direction?

 

Personally though I have to agree I've never heard anything previously to suggest he is "crying in his tower".