Rasclomalum Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 ... what would you like to see in it? These would be some of my suggestions, or musings at any rate: (Note that I suck at the concept of balance and that I may be prone to suggest overpowered cheese) Strictly undivided! - No unit in a Word Bearers detachment can ever take a mark of Chaos from Codex Chaos Space Marines. Units with an inherent Mark of Chaos, such as Plague Marines and Noise Marines (as well as marked unique characters), are therefore excluded as well. To compensate, there could be an appropriately costed Mark of Chaos Undivided or Mark of Burning Faith or whatever to call it. Dunno what bonus it should confer, though Fear, Crusader or Furious Charge all make fluff sense. The last two would also be of great benefit to cultists. The mark would perhaps also extend to Daemon Princes, giving the Word Bearers access to undivided DP's. It's either that or Daemon Princes are the only exemption from this rule. Dark Apostles! - Word Bearers are all about these guys. Hell, one could argue that they should be mandatory. At the very least, if a Word Bearers detachment contains a Dark Apostle there should be a legion rule automatically making him the Warlord. I would also argue that a Word Bearers Dark Apostle should have access to a wider selection of wargear than the regular one - bikes, jump packs and Tactical Dreadnought Armour should all be available to the WB DA. They're the undisputed leaders of that Legion, after all, and should get access to whatever toys they damn well please. Daemonancy - purchasable upgrade for the Dark Apostle that alters Beseech the Dark Gods to affect the entire army instead of just the Dark Apostle's unit, perhaps also affects Gift of Mutation. Coryphaus! - Make this an available upgrade for the Chaos Lord. A primary detachment of Word Bearers containing a Dark Apostle Warlord may nominate a Chaos Lord in the same detachment as the Apostle's Coryphaus. Chaos Lords purchasing this upgrade speak with the voice of their Dark Apostles and gain Demagogue and possibly Zealot, with the added benefit of increasing the range of the Apostle's Demagogue from 6'' to 12''. The Chosen of the Gods are watching you... Anointed! - Something for the termies. A purchasable upgrade to make them Fearless? Perhaps "Anointed" is a rule for the Dark Apostle, which means that if he himself takes Terminator Armour unlocks Chaos Terminators as a troops choice, because the word "Apostlewing" has a nice ring to it? Or would it be better balanced if that rule applied to the Coryphaus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'm having a hard time justifying just a single Legion. I can justify making something that improves cultists past a DA and Helcult, but there are a lot of things that can be fixed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If Word Bearers got a supplement all the other Traitor Legion players would flip tables that the rules for their army of choice wasn't out yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have a supplement for my Word Bearers already... It's called Codex Crimson Slaughter and I love it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 What would I like to see? The relentless advance of the Word Bearers is a terrifying sight, as the monotonous chant and beat of drums can break even the strongest will. The unshakeable belief of the Word Bearers in the truth of their cause has seen them marching into certain death, yet unwilling to take a single step backwards. A battle ends either in victory or the utter destruction of the Word Bearer host. Army-wide fearless. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Mark of True Faith: Grants Fearless? I suppose you just need to give it the price tag it merits and you're good to go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If I ever saw a supplement that restricted Marks that can be taken outside of say a World Eater, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, or Emperor's Children supplement, I would buy the book just to burn it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have a supplement for my Word Bearers already... It's called Codex Crimson Slaughter and I love it. No that's a supplement for your Crimson Slaughter army, who for some reason you call Word Bearers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have a supplement for my Word Bearers already... It's called Codex Crimson Slaughter and I love it. No that's a supplement for your Crimson Slaughter army, who for some reason you call Word Bearers They're my little plastic men, I can calls them what I wants! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Mark of True Faith: Grants Fearless? I suppose you just need to give it the price tag it merits and you're good to go. so 1 pt per model? thats about right when I look at the regular marines Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Mark of True Faith: Grants Fearless? I suppose you just need to give it the price tag it merits and you're good to go. so 1 pt per model? thats about right when I look at the regular marines Or just make the Icon of Vengeance cheaper than its whopping 25 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Its not fair. Why doesnt a word bearers suplement exist already. I hate my life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Strictly undivided! Have you by chance heard of the Sanctified? Or read any of the BL material concerning the Word Bearers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'd give them their special rules and units from 30K. Seriously, the guys at FW nailed Word Bearers perfectly. The only thing I would add is icons for Daemons and a Dark Apostle upgrade instead of a Dark Apostle unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If Word Bearers got a supplement all the other Traitor Legion players would flip tables that the rules for their army of choice wasn't out yet. That is false. I would support my wayward brethren, as I supported Black Legion before it. Better Apostle would be a gimmie. Actually, just make it a Lord option somehow. Fearless Cultists (aka Helcult) Better interaction with Daemons. Army wide rules of Crusader, or Zealot, or Stubborn type nature. Warlord traits that focus on Aura buffs, and Relics that reflect a fanatical, religious focus. No restrictions required here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Have you by chance heard of the Sanctified? Or read any of the BL material concerning the Word Bearers? Fair point, Marduk had berzerkers in his host. He turned a blind eye to their monolatry because they were such efficient assault troops. Still, as a Legion the WB have an aversion to monotheism and it would make a fair degree of sense if rules written specifically for them reflected that in some way. The Sanctified of Khorne aren't exactly Word Bearers though, they're an ex-WB splinter group. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 That actually wasn't what I was pointing out though. Currently, Marks are shaping up to be "If a specific God takes notice of you", not a sign of devotion. Meanwhile, an Icon is. And you are right, the Word Bearers lean towards pantheonism, which is the worship of a pantheon while also asking specific dieties for favors that are "within their control". Such as in Dark Disciple when Marduk blessed a bomb in the name of Teentch. Or in 'The Shards of Erebus' when one of the assault leaders of Calth remarked how he and his men had just blessed their meal in the name of Nurgle(ironic, I know; but it does make sense). So while I can agree on No Cult Units, and maybe even no Icons(although I admit its stretching), the no Marks seems....... out of character now a days due to how the Mark system works now, background wise. It isn't a symbol of devotion to a specific God, but rather that you have received that God's favor. For example, an assault unit that is constantly in the melee, bringing the righteous fury of the Pantheon onto its foes and offering the lives of its victims as sacrifice might receive the Mark of Khorne. Not because they strayed onto the Eightfold Path like those in Dark Disciple, but because Khorne was the one who was appealed the most by how that unit showed its devotion to the Pantheon. And a million other examples can be brought up. And in relation to pantheonism, the raising of icons wouldn't necessarily be in devotion to a specific god but instead asking that specific god for a favor. For example, a Havocs unit asking Nurgle for protection and the will to keep going in the upcoming battle. Or some Bikers asking Slaanesh for the swiftness of hand to strike their foes like lightning and leave only the roar of their engines in passing as thunder. Or warpsmiths praying to Tzeentch the daemon-bomb does not blow up in their face this time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So your great idea is to limit me on my options by forcing things down my throat? Not trying to dump on your idea but that is a terrible place to start with this type of stuff. Removing options is never good, especially in a book that allows few viable options as it is, by doing this you have instantly removed Obliterators, Mutilators, 3/4th of the Elites section, all the marked wargear (Axe, Jugg, Palenquin, Steed of Slaanesh, Disk of Tz), and Daemon Princes (Daemon-Of Princes at least, but instead we now cannot spend 10-15pts to upgrade out Princes to do certain things we want them to do, more limitation). This is just off-hand what I can think of while at work, not actually looking in the book. What will replace those 10 units and 10 pieces of wargear that are now removed? My options are severly limited and I will have a hard time fielding a force that does not include multiples of stuff because I so few options elsewhere. I know this is just fantasy talk about a "what if" thing, but this is a terrible place to start by making rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Because it was my understanding that marks were a sign of singular devotion to one particular Chaos God and that Word Bearers tend towards strict pantheonism, I thought it made sense to limit the use of marks in a Word Bearers army. You have to look at the particular makeup of the Legion, it makes sense that Abaddon has plague marines in the Black Legion but cult troops in a Word Bearers just doesn't seem right somehow. From Kol_Sarek's writing it appears that where I've gone wrong is conflating cult troops with marked troops (though the rules still do that after some fashion what with mixed mark units not being allowed). I can still feel that some "undivided" mark for devotion to the entire pantheon makes sense in context though. So, modify what I've said about marks then. Cult troops would probably still have to be a no-go, but other units are allowed to be marked and steeds can still be ridden. Of course this limits options in some areas, the key here is to find things that compensate for it, and allow a Word Bearers army to do things a regular C:CSM army couldn't. Needless to say, a Word Bearers supplement would contain unique artifacts, and possibly even a unique character or two. The questions is, and will always be, what limitations would we be willing to take (and there's probably have to be some) and what compensation are we asking for in return? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Here is the thing. You have to look at the particular makeup of the Legion, it makes sense that Abaddon has plague marines in the Black Legion but cult troops in a Word Bearers just doesn't seem right somehow. I have played Word Bearers for 18 years (Second edition), it may not feel right to you and that is your choice to not run marks and that is fine. I am not one to judge, but if I want to run marks I should be allowed too. It is in the fluff, they worship the gods, many in fact worship one god over another. Why not focus on adding things on instead of forcing things onto players? Something like "May take Troop Daemons in your primary detatchment" or "Can summon Daemons to your Icons" or some other spify rule. Taking away our ability to field half the codex because you view things as wrong is not the way to approach this. Unless you only want Cultists and Heldrakes that is, cause that is basically what you have done :P To your last question, what Limitations does the Crimson Slaughter Codex add onto its player base? Clan Racoon? Black Legion?. None to very little. I will take no limitations, that is my answer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Games Workshop has moved away from restrictions, if memory serves. Also note that Jarulek's host was only one among many; not all Word Bearers host name their operating warlord coryphaus nor their terminators annointed. I suspect some hosts aren't even led by dark apostles. All I want is army-wide fearless. Oh, and Mat Ward to stay the away from this supplement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3632852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Relics: Book of Lorgar, The Daemon-Primarch of the Word Bearers has been compiling his encyclopaedia of the empyrean since the fall of monarchia during the Horus heresy. The dark apostles of the legion interpret their master's words to gain greater insights into the warp. dark apostle only, makes the dark apostle into a mastery level 1 psyker with access to divination. Uniquely among relics multiple copies may be purchased by the same character, each Additional copy raises mastery level by one up to a maximum of three. 30 pts/volume. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3633097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Here is the thing. You have to look at the particular makeup of the Legion, it makes sense that Abaddon has plague marines in the Black Legion but cult troops in a Word Bearers just doesn't seem right somehow. I have played Word Bearers for 18 years (Second edition), it may not feel right to you and that is your choice to not run marks and that is fine. I am not one to judge, but if I want to run marks I should be allowed too. It is in the fluff, they worship the gods, many in fact worship one god over another. Why not focus on adding things on instead of forcing things onto players? Something like "May take Troop Daemons in your primary detatchment" or "Can summon Daemons to your Icons" or some other spify rule. Taking away our ability to field half the codex because you view things as wrong is not the way to approach this. Unless you only want Cultists and Heldrakes that is, cause that is basically what you have done To your last question, what Limitations does the Crimson Slaughter Codex add onto its player base? Clan Racoon? Black Legion?. None to very little. I will take no limitations, that is my answer. From what I can tell, the only "restrictions" generated by the supplements are "Must use these artifacts" and then "Must take VotLW"(Black Legion)/"Only Cult units can take VotLW"(Crimson Slaughter). To add to Smurf's point while also providing a middle ground, being a CSM warband does mean occasionally having to suck it up and ally with someone. For example, some Skulltaker Berzerkers. Or Cleaved Plague Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3633160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Word Bearers do ask for the favor of individual gods all the time. The example that ADB used that of the Romans. The Romans worshipped all of the gods, they however picked the god that they needed most at that time and asked for his blessing. The same would go for Word Bearers. If they needed to storm a fortification and knew that a combat would involve mostly hand to hand fighting, they would ask Khorne to bless them. If they needed the resilience of Nurgle, they would ask his help etc etc. The Word Bearers differ in that they do not dedicate themselves to a God, they flip flop around. If they need a God help they sacrifice a million humans rather than their own souls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3633253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The important thing to me though, is that there is that fanaticism, that leaning towards worship, that should be part of what it is to be a Word Bearer. I dont think any 'only unmarked' should be applied here, regardless of any history that says 'undivided' since GW seems to be abandoning it as a concept anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288555-so-if-there-were-to-be-a-word-bearers-supplement/#findComment-3633390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.