Emperor's Furor Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So I was reading the Death Guard entry in Betrayal again and I stumbled across a little line that piqued my interest it went like this... "Mortarion himself kept little company with his fellow Primarchs, save for Horus and Curze upon ocassion..." This got me thinking, perhaps Curze let him in on some of his visions, perhaps unknowingly Curze contributed to Mortarion turning his back on the Emperor after Mortarion thought what the visions Curze saw were due to the Emperor being in charge. I'm not saying it's definite, just that I think it would be a nice avenue to explore since Curze never really had many friends, it appears however Mortarion was though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Remember that Mortarion despised anything having to do with "sorcery" though. Perhaps he could stand Curze's company more than those of the others. It's difficult to picture him being friends with someone who spoke of horrific visions of things to come. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well, I can certainly picture these two morbidly sitting around and contemplating the doom and gloom of humanity while exchanging sniggering comments about their brothers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Curze kept his visions to himself until the last moment, when he thought he could trust Fulgrim. So he told the Illuminator, who in turn told Dorn, who confronted Curze, who ripped Dorn open (bit and clawed chunks out of him), resulting in Curze's imprisonment and subsequent slaughter of his guards. So yes, Curze and Mortarion could've gotten along nicely, with all their doom and gloom, as said. Remember, even The Lion told Curze he'd always thought of him as one of the closest to him, if not in true friendship (which both are incapable of, apparently), at least in their personalities. Mortarion's not that far from either of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 There are some tantalising details in Vengeful Spirit, surely more to come ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Spoiler them details, brother! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Spoiler them details, brother! Seconded Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 from scars the khan trolls morty, telling him for all his machinations at nikea to bring down the librarius and hating sorcery, he's now surrounded by the freakshow and the worst of them. i also got the feeling that the khan implied morty was already heading down that path from vengeful spirit suspension of reality time. morty senses something on their ship. brings the deathshroud into the apothecary and sacrifices them them so our old friend grulgor can come back, as some sort of living daemon/life eater. who's then used on molech to take out a continental jungle. doesn't seem bothered by this, or the presence of fulgrim in full-blown daemon prince mode. however, there's a few years gap between scars and VS, so there is more to be told apparently Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Indeed, Mortarion and Curze were close. This little tidbit has been around since the Night Lords IA, I believe. You can even see it shown in the Allies Chart, albeit the Death Guard seem to find the Night Lords modus operandi a bit untasteful, even for them. In a way, they'd be a lot alike... although it seems Mortarion was more accepted by his brothers than Nighthaunter. I found it much more interesting that the Khan and Mortarion seemed to have some sort of bond, as implied in Scars. And I'd like to forget Mortarion's bit in Vengeful Spirit. It seems to erase everything that was felt in Scars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 from scars the khan trolls morty, telling him for all his machinations at nikea to bring down the librarius and hating sorcery, he's now surrounded by the freakshow and the worst of them. i also got the feeling that the khan implied morty was already heading down that path from vengeful spirit suspension of reality time. morty senses something on their ship. brings the deathshroud into the apothecary and sacrifices them them so our old friend grulgor can come back, as some sort of living daemon/life eater. who's then used on molech to take out a continental jungle. doesn't seem bothered by this, or the presence of fulgrim in full-blown daemon prince mode. however, there's a few years gap between scars and VS, so there is more to be told apparently Gah that vengeful spirit bit absolutely sucks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castrmen Orth Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It's an evolution of his character though. We know he becomes a daemon Prince so how he is in vengeful spirit is him heading down that path. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The thing about Mortarion falling to Nurgle is... it wasn't by his choice. His fleet was scuttled in the warp via Typhon and he had no choice but to give his Legion over to ensure their survival. That was the tragic bit about Mortarion / Death Guard. Seems that's being flushed away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Starts to turn him into a generic follower of a god, like Fulgrim. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'll oversimplify on purpose: the vast majority of those who get too close to Chaos eventually become "simple" followers, even if that ends up contradicting their previous stance/personality. It's just Mortarion's tragedy. Just like Fulgrim's perfectionism (undoubtedly for the good of the Imperium) ended up opening doors for his downfall, so too will Mortarion end up embracing Chaos in spite of his despise for all things sorcerous. The Khan noticed how Mortarion should've collapsed from his wounds during their duel , which is a powerful enough hint that something's affecting the Death Lord. Not all fallings into Chaos are natural character evolutions. At some point the beast's claws sink in and flaws/prejudices/wounds are magnified both exponentially and monstrously. Of course, I still hope Mortarion's path from ascetic to corrupted is explained, but I'm perfectly open to it spiraling midway. And lets' not forget the old fluff (which is what we've got, even if it now comes with a free dose of salt) has Mortarion surrendering to Nurgle by surrendering to pain (the hallmark of himself and his Legion), which is the supreme contradiction. So maybe that 'hipocrisy' is the motto for the Death Guard's downfall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Actually, I believe that Mortarion's endurance during the duel with the Khan is due to his physiology. He's always been much more durable than his brothers... he was shot by a Predator Executioner and kept fighting for godsake! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The thing about Mortarion falling to Nurgle is... it wasn't by his choice. His fleet was scuttled in the warp via Typhon and he had no choice but to give his Legion over to ensure their survival. That was the tragic bit about Mortarion / Death Guard. Seems that's being flushed away. Quote for truth. It's all very well filling in the gaps, but sadly for me, this is where I just begin to ignore these authors ideas of what happened. I like to think of him as still loyal and ultimately human, and not wanting to become some demonic sorcerer, but humane and thinking of his loyal (his loyal, not loyalists) men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 That is how Chaos works, sure as sure. 1. "I am a soldier. I have nothing to do with Khorne." 2. "Okay, Khorne is the god of war, which does have something to do with what I do, but it doesn't count if I'm fighting against him." 3. "Well, if Khorne is the god of war, he must also be the god of martial honor. That's what I do, martial honor." 4. "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! BLOOD! SKULLS! BLOOD! SKULLS!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So a natural progression then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was under the impression the Khan didn't find Morty's resistance too natural, but that was my understanding, and truth be told, there's little of "natural" about the Primarchs. @Wade: your example is a possibility, but in the case of 30K most traitors seem to be largely ignorant of names or, really, the true extent of Chaos's influence. They know there's something that 'works' a certain way and is helping them...not much more, in most cases, Primarchs included. The transition from 3 to 4 is what I was talking about. It's natural for the corruption to end up being abrupt, at some point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 @ Wade: Not really, but okay then... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mortarion bartered with the gods for his followers to be useful on the table top. His wish was granted, but a price was to be paid. First Draigo now this. haha. Who wrote vengeful spirit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Graham McNeill. To my knowledge there's Death Guard covering some middle ground before Vengeful Spirit. Not sure that'll placate everyone's wrath over Mortarion walking the path we all know he's walking but...hang tight, we're getting our answers. The Khan seemed to hit a nerve when he pointed to Mortarion how, for all his 'Burn the witch!' talk he had sided with sorcerors and monstrosities. Mortarion's path is full of contradictions and hypocrisy. He's probably rolling with it, with or without any strain to his conscience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 That doesn't explain why he'd willing do what he did to the Deathshroud.There's complacency, and then there's that. Rituals, summoning, witchcraft. Graham McNeill dropped the ball. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'll agree with you if his action never gets an explanation, Dusk. But let's not call it bad storytelling right away. I mean, is Mortarion really that ignorant of something infecting his Legion? Was it just Grulgor and Typhon who started acting weird? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have a feeling that all of First Grand Company fell in line with Typhon's alliegance rather quickly. I believe there's a short story of Typhon's First Company against Dark Angels / Iron Hands and the Death Guard are already starting to show corruption. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288563-another-reason-for-mortarions-turn/#findComment-3632879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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