Fenric Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have a basic idea in my head that I want to ally in some Ws bikers to my SW army. The Idea is to make a hard to read force that can show up from any flank and surprise my opponent. I haven't sat down and made a list yet but thinking Bran Redmaw with a unit for showing up behind them and one scout unit with melta to take out that nasty tank or walker. Then I could use a charater with saga of the hunter to make another flanking unit. Add a big WS bike unit with gravguns comming in from a flank as well and you can totally surprise your opponent. Any other ideas how to make a complete list to tie this togeather? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Im not sure bran redmaw gives you OBEL? As far as i know he just has his own version of SotH (which allows outflank, but only from L-R table edges, not your opponents edge). Im working on a similar list though that uses bran, a wolf priest with Soth, and a couple of OBEL scout units... rather than outflanking the WS as well, they could possibly just provide some good first turn pressure. Id say the key to a list like this is to hit hard and fast in the first two turns and start tying up units, then in the 2nd /3rd turn, you have your outflankers coming on to add to that pressure..Your problem if everything outflanks is that your opponent can set up for this (mainly by taking the center of the table). TWC or space wolf bikers would also go well in here. Drop pods again, will let you apply some good first turn pressure to tie u units until your outflankers arrive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3632519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 I see what you mean I do not not plan on using everything for flanking just a few select units and possibly even use Rhinos with greyhunters to hold the middle field until the flankers arrive. I noticed how people expect drop pods now and deply accordingly and worst of all i play often versus a Grey knight player with warpquake which really screws up my pods. Had the thought that Rhinos or even a Landraider can work quite well now. Atleast I mean to try a game using more rhinos again. So my goal woul be heavy fire support(can fit in a thunderfire cannon through allies) rhinos to take control of the mid and then hit them from behind and in the flank hard. Also regarding Bran it says this where i saw the rules: Patient Hunters - Perhaps the main reason to take Bran Redmaw! He gives a single Grey Hunter pack the Infiltrate USR or they may use theBehind Enemy Lines special rule as if they were Wolf Scouts!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3632534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Ah Cool, aye had forgot about that..aye grey hunters with OBEL is pretty nice..obviously you could choose to just infiltrate them depending on the game/opponent setup too, then outflank bran with another squad (so OBEL grey hunters, another grey hunters unit flanking with bran, another grey hunters flanking with a wolf priest haha!!). Land raider could work as a very good mobile heavy support, just take the standard lascannon version, id say. I often play rhinos still - (mainly as i cant be bothered buying/painting 5 drop pods ha), they are stil useful in a rush, but they will die if the opponent has any heavy support...and if he gets first turn, more than likely give away first blood. If you were outflanking larger hunter units though, id probs save some points on what is inside those 'rhinos' and take razorbacks instead ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3632589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 There is a list being used competitively that allies wolves to white scars. Its a chaptermaster with the shield eternal and a thunderhammer and wolf lord also on bike with SotB abd a TH/SS and a RP on bike along with tons of bikes. From what I understand, it's minmaxed to the balls and very in your face. I only bring it up because you might get some inspiration from it. Search 'Super Friends'. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3632723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The Bran Redmaw and WS dynamic is pretty intense. You do have to keep an eye on how many units are going into reserves and such, but the flexibility of the special rules fromboth armies allow you to make sure that the units that you can outflank can outflank while also allowing units to infiltrate that you need to infiltrate. While pricey, a combination of Bran and Khan really can completely throw an opponents standard tactics in array as he tries to compensate for the abilities of both working in such a dynamic way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3632888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I believe you can only outflank the LR with WG--it has to a dedicated transport & the only unit allowed a LR is WG. That being said, it also allows you to outflank an LRC loaded with a WP & WG in TDA. A very nasty surprise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3633227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Had a quick game last night against my housemates sons of terra drop pod list..I took the following (no white scars..or bikes..but 3 possible outflanking options) 1750pts Bran Redmaw Rune Priest (sat back with long fangs) Wolf Priest 3x Grey Hunters (x10), Plasmax2, Wulfen, Standard 1x Grey Hunters (x6) Plasma, Razorback 2x Long Fangs (x6) - 5ML TWCx4 - T.Hammer, 3xM.bombs Lone Wolf - TDA, C.Fist, SS, We only got to the end of turn three, but i had a major advantage by that point, and would have been hard pressed to lose from where the game stood (i held both objectives, and had killed off about twice what he had) .Albeit, i had stolen the initiative, which had helped a fair bit, and also managed to get redmaw to transform on turn 2 (he then ate an entire devastator squad on turn 3 - but unfortunately had no more time left for him to run amok) The list was really fun to play, i ended up deciding to infiltrate a grey hunter squad rather than give it OBEL, which worked out well in this game, as there was a big buildling centre board i could hide them behind/create a midfield from the word go. The razorback and TWC rushed up first turn to support them. Having 2 full units of grey hunters outflanking is ace, ive usually always taken 1 with a wolf priest, but the fact bran lets you outflank another if he is attached, and then gives a third the choice of OBEL or infilitrate (plus his silly monster transform) - for 210pts...ill definately be playing him some more in the future, if just for the fact that having an MC in a marine army is..well..unexpected!! I really wanted to see how he fared in a challenge with lysander..but he unfortunately landed ont eh other side of the board..to be fair, with lysanders 3++ he have probably won anyway...better bran just concentrated on mauling troops/devs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3633828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I'm sorry, I'm hoplessly lost. Where are you getting this information about what Bran Redmaw can do and how do you get two units of Grey Hunters outflanking? Where's this info coming from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3634527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Forgeworld imperial armour Vol. 11, page 127 In a nutshell. Bran (as your HQ) can allow you to either infiltrate one unit of GH or use them as if they were wolf scouts. In addition he also has saga of the hunter (per normal codex rules). You can then add another unit with either a WGBL or WP and give them SotH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3634639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Aye, as baulder says. because he is a named special character, his saga of the hunter doesn't count towards your saga cap. So you can take him, attach him to a unit of grey hunters, and outflank them. you then have brans special rule 'patient hunters' which allows you to give another grey hunter unit either infiltrate or OBEL (this could be the unit he is attached to, or a completely different unit) You can then attach a wolf priest (wth saga of the hunter) to another grey hunter pack, allowing them to outflank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3634773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Chuck in a drop pod and some scouts and you've got a lot of models Turning up on the enemies doorstep. Makes me wonder how is best to play this army. Been thinking that if you get the choice of side at the start you pick the least defensible area. That way you can set yourself up for later in the game having the area you really want. Also, placing the objectives aggressively really works well with this I think. Tried Bran etc. with a couple of set-ups. For me the wolf priest works best with the hard hitting plasma unit (getting about 7 shots off with preferred enemy is awesome). For me Bran usually goes with a flamer pack so that I can make the most of charging and being charged, possibly a bloodclaw unit would be good here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3634809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 bloodclaws im not sure on, as you cant charge the turn you come on. The flamers can be useful, but nt as useful as in a pod...as if your opponent knows you are outflanking, chances are he'll keep units away from table edges, which may leave flamers out of range when they first come on. Saying that 15 power armoured guys turning up in your deployment zone is still gonna cause a headache The list above i just ran everything with twin plasma, mainly cos i knew that my housemate was gonna be playing a list which would have minimal heavy armour. But aye, the wolf priest squad having two plasma guns and his plasma pistol with preferred enemy infantry is a no-brainer (i often add in a WG with combi plas too, so that as you say, you get 7 plasma shots the turn you arrive!). The one thing you have to watch out for when/if adding OBEL scouts in too, is that you actually have a legal amount of troops on the board at the start (50% i think unless you are using drop pods?), and also that you have enough on the board to survive a couple of turns if your reserves dont turn up quickly. The one thing i like about this list though is the flexibility it can offer. Being able to choose between infiltrate and OBEL for one squad is nice. And after all, you dont have to outflank anything if you dont want...and if your opponent deploys first, you can alter you what is/isnt outflanking to suit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3634844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ye sounds as if this has good potential and is also something fun to play around with :) Nice to hear about your game going so well as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3634950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Do infiltrate units count towards the 50% max reserve units or are they separate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3635292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 No, they aren't in Reserve. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3635502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 A Land raider Proteus can get scout, allowing you to aggressively deploy a unit of grey hunters or wolf guard (for some combi weapon spam turn 1). The capacity is only 8, but it could play nicely with a redraw style list. Especially given that the vehicle also gives a reroll on reserves rolls. That means all your outflankers each have an 8/9 chance of arriving on turn 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3635803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Ooh, actually, just noticed. Scout confers outflank too. That makes the Proteus pretty versatile in such a list. I may have to get a second one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3635807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 bloodclaws im not sure on, as you cant charge the turn you come on. The flamers can be useful, but nt as useful as in a pod...as if your opponent knows you are outflanking, chances are he'll keep units away from table edges, which may leave flamers out of range when they first come on. Saying that 15 power armoured guys turning up in your deployment zone is still gonna cause a headache I think you're probably right. But maybe meltas for Brans unit then. Even if they cant charge on the first turn they arrive you'll be wanting to get him into combat asap and most ppl wont charge him. So could either split him off from his pack so as not to lose the plasma shots, or just forgo shooting on the turn after he arrives in favor of a charge. I'd thought bloodclaws primarily because if you're going to be the one most likely to charge you may as well up the number of dice you'll be rolling, never tried them with bran tbh. When I used a list like this I put meltas in the OBEL unit since most folks tend to put their big tanks right at the back where they think it is safe. Silly tau, when will they learn, they are never safe from the wolves. Just on a quick side note, does anyone know if tau's 'no charge bonus to the attacker' rule (not sure what it is really called) extends to claws? Not that we need the extra attacks against them but it is rude that they get their supporting fire, d6 runaway before the charge and then you don't get a bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3635823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Aye usually id add a couple of meltas into at least one squad, brans as you say would make most sense here (although in the game the other night, i just ran him off by himself as soon as he transformed, as then i could make full use of his move through cover and fleet rules, to get him into combat (risked taking a couple of hits in overwatch, but he shrugged them off). Ooh, actually, just noticed. Scout confers outflank too. That makes the Proteus pretty versatile in such a list. I may have to get a second one! haha, so stick one of those in and have a possible 4 units outflanking :D thinking this could add up to one hell of an outflanking apocalypse formation :) You can always stick a wolf priest with some wolf guard in a regular landraider too (as it coutns as their dedicated transport) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3636251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORKILL Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I have been running White Scars with Space Wolf allies. This list works pretty well. Khan Chapter Master on a Bike w/ hammer and Shield Eternal 8 bikes 2 grav combi-grav Attack bike Multi-melta 7 bikes 2 grav Power Fist Attack bike Multi-melta Storm Talon AC,SkyHammer Rune Priest on bike Runic Armor/Wolf tooth necklace/Saga of the Beast Slayer/Master of Runes/Runic Sword Runepriest in TDA JoWW/Living Lightning Staff/Wolf tooth necklace/ Runic Staff 8 GH MoTW/ melta/Banner/Fist/ DP 10 GH 2x Plasma/ Plasma Pistol/ MoTW/ Banner/ Power Axe/DP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3636424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 you could just spam more than one Proteus (argh, what is the correct plural?) The rules state that more than one augury web has no additional effect but I think that only applies to the reserves reroll/penalty. I asked a FW rep this questíon while ordering my first Proteus and he concurred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3636483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 What makes the Redmaw a monstrous creature? Where is it written? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3659052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The FAQ for Imperial Armor 11. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3659163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The FAQ for Imperial Armor 11. Aye, makes quite a big difference to his effectiveness! Smashy smashy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288584-flanking-force-swws-brainstorming/#findComment-3660337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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