Old Metal Chaos Dreadnought Combi-Bolter Location

[stuckinbermuda]

<p>Apologies for the trip down memory lane, it is one of my favorite places <img alt="msn-wink.gif" src="http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif" title=";)" /></p>

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<p>I'm a huge fan of the old models and while I continue to collect the new ones I have to purchase and restore the old ones first, when I find them, very much like rescuing an abandoned and abused animal.</p>

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<p>While collecting some second hand models to prepare for a major overhaul of my Chaos forces I picked up one of the old metal chaos dreadnoughts. This model has some special memories for me because I got one in the first chaos "battle force" I bought when I first got into the hobby. I've stripped, repainted and modified my original one many times as my skills have improved and now it sits on the top shelf of my display cabinet. The one I recently found had many layers of bad paint, huge gaps and horrible attempts at making it look better by sticking on random bits with what appeared to be hot glue.</p>

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<p>I've been in possesion of the model for a month and it has been processed through my simple green stripping method and finally made it way to the top of my to do list. The stripper had removed most of the bad paint but I still had to pick out a lot of the details with dental tools (especially on all the hoses) and carefully pry off some of the "extra" bits that had been added. After carefully dissasembling all the component parts and picking them clean I basically had a brand new model like the day it came out of the box, all the flash, air vents and miscast glory. I estimated the preparation process would take a day or two, I'm a perfectionist, and I would be able to reassemble the model soon and maybe make a few minor upgrades.</p>

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<p>While going over the details on the model I noticed something about the flat piece that the torso assembly rests on right about the legs. There are bolter barrels sticking out on either side and a little further back, on either side of the "hips", are ammo clips, very similar to the clips for the autocannon arm but smaller and bolter sized. I know I had an argument at least fifteen years ago with someone that those were where the combi-bolters were. There is what looks like a single bolter barrel on the left arm/shoulder and that has generally been accepted as the location of the combi-bolter, at least in my circles. Back in the day it was argued that the bolters on the waist were just a part of the chassis and not weapons, but there they are. This would give the model built in combi-bolters and a single bolter up in the shoulder.</p>

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<p>I am very curious what the thoughts are on this despite this being a somewhat redundant topic on an old model and with the new rules for "hellbrutes" being the current definition for the model. So are those bolters on the waist and in the shoulder? Was this specific to this mark only?</p>

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<p>Heh, this model is old enough to drink in the U.S.</p>

[Seleucus]

Having just compared both an old metal 'hellbrute' and an old metal DA dread, I would agree, they definitely do look like bolters with clips at the back, totally different to the loyalist one - that has optics/sensors instead.

 

The protusions you mention on the left could be sensors etc?

[stuckinbermuda]

I figure the protrusions on the front of the shoulder pieces are sensors but on the left shoulder the lowest protrusion is most definatly a bolter muzzel since the flash arrestor is visible and the same as the two on the hips. The is no visible magazine or means of loading it at the shoulder either. I'm going to look back in some of the older books and see if there are any better descriptions of the weapons.

[stuckinbermuda]

Found what I was looking for! Top of page 79 of the Codex Chaos supplement from 1996 (the era of the model)

 

"Auxiliary weapons were often fitted into the armoured body of the Dreadnought instead of the arm itself. In either case, any hit which penetrates either the body of the Dreadnought or its close combat weapon arm will cripple its auxiliary weapons as well."

 

Unfortunatly it looks like the current rules don't allow for the combi-weapons on a hellbrute so do I have to use FW rules to field an old Chaos Dread now? (especially if I want to use the Thunderhammer which is the only arm I have for the left side)

[Seahawk]

Ye old metal dreadnought does indeed have a single bolter on each side.

 

The Mark IV dreadnoughts have a combi/storm bolter on the lower left or right side of the body, condensing the weapon to just one side so that it can have more assorted systems on the other side.

 

The Mark V dreadnoughts have the weapon incorporated into the arm, giving more room to the body for assorted systems.

 

As for being able to use it, the rules are right there in the codex. After-all, a combi-bolter is just a twin-linked bolter, ie two bolters firing in unison, ie the two bolters on the dreadnought's body. You sure you have the current codex? I see combi-bolter, heavy flamer, thunder hammer, and power scourge all available as options.

[stuckinbermuda]

What I read sounds like you have to upgrade to a powerfist, or two, to get either a single  combi-bolter or heavy flamer option incorporated into it (the powerfist) and then one or both powerfists can be replaced with a thunderhammer and/or power scourge, which do not have the stated option incorporated into them (and obviously they are not modeled on the old model since it was something that was built into the torso and was separate from the arm options).  This line is reinforced by the loyalist options that follow the same reasoning and don't have stormbolter options if you do not have the powerfist arm or upgrade it to a missile arm.

 

Hope I'm reading this wrong.

 

should be 115pts with autocannon, thunderhammer and combi-bolter options as represented by the model but I can't get the combi-bolter option due to it now being a powerfist arm upgrade only it seems. And now I notice there are no other upgrades like smoke launchers or havoc launchers, so are there better forgeworld rules to field old dreadnoughts instead of the nerfed helbrute version?

[Seahawk]

Ah, so you're right. Only power fists can get ranged weapons, and I see it mounted on the outer part of the forearm on the new model...kinda wish they'd have stuck to the old model then. Now there's a pair of eye balls hanging where the bolter was.

 

Blegh. 

 

I looked through all the current rules including FW's, and sadly there are none that will allow you to field it with an autocannon, hammer, and bolter. :(

 

I never noticed the smoke launchers were missing from the standard gear. How utterly rude of them to continue to nerf the poor chaos dreadnought.

[stuckinbermuda]

I find it rude that they seem to have diverged from their general rule of allowing rules to represent all the models they have made, in all the configuration they could be in with standard supplied parts. There are other notable exceptions like Doomrider of course...

 

Had to call GD and ask and yeah, the response was that the model is just too old to support with rules anymore, lame. (seriously how hard would it be to leave a few options open) The young sounding guy on the phone even mentioned the old rhino chassis and how it can fit inside the new one and I was like yeah, I still run those models...

 

Hate to say but as an old player I don't like it.

[Seahawk]

One hand giveth, the other taketh away. While my Chaos dreadnoughts get the nerf bat, my mini Ork Trukks are having a grand old time, considering boyz will block LOS to it almost completely...

[Warpsmith_Johnson]

I find it rude that they seem to have diverged from their general rule of allowing rules to represent all the models they have made, in all the configuration they could be in with standard supplied parts. There are other notable exceptions like Doomrider of course...

 

Had to call GD and ask and yeah, the response was that the model is just too old to support with rules anymore, lame. (seriously how hard would it be to leave a few options open) The young sounding guy on the phone even mentioned the old rhino chassis and how it can fit inside the new one and I was like yeah, I still run those models...

 

Hate to say but as an old player I don't like it.

problem is, the metal dread had the ability to take a bunch of combo bolters, far more than most players would be ok with. Aside from having some extra barrels sticking out here and there, every option from that kit is available, in fact there are more options than parts to make them with.

[stuckinbermuda]

 

I find it rude that they seem to have diverged from their general rule of allowing rules to represent all the models they have made, in all the configuration they could be in with standard supplied parts. There are other notable exceptions like Doomrider of course...

 

Had to call GD and ask and yeah, the response was that the model is just too old to support with rules anymore, lame. (seriously how hard would it be to leave a few options open) The young sounding guy on the phone even mentioned the old rhino chassis and how it can fit inside the new one and I was like yeah, I still run those models...

 

Hate to say but as an old player I don't like it.

problem is, the metal dread had the ability to take a bunch of combo bolters, far more than most players would be ok with. Aside from having some extra barrels sticking out here and there, every option from that kit is available, in fact there are more options than parts to make them with.

I beg to differ, the only instance where you can take a combi-bolter in the new rules is on the powerfist. The model only ever had the one combi-bolter (two barrels and two clips, one on each side) on the waist, the arms did not have them, nor were there any others on it. It did have assault launchers which are also unsupported. I currently have two of the metal dreads and am about to pick up a third. The rules as written do not support the model since it does not have a powerfist option to be able to use the combi-bolter. GW told me the model is too old to support since it has been in use since 1993, which goes against their old policy of supporting all their models with rules. New policy is to sell the new models and this might just be the start of new rules being used to filter out old models from collections to encourage sales.

[Hyaenidae]

Used to have one, but i converted the crap out of it.