Will never ally BA again, any help would well.... help

[sanguinius for life]

Me and a group of friends play a weekly game between 1k and 5k a week there is 8 of us we play the fallowing armies: 2x dark eldar (one web way one fully mounted In shoeboxes and the other as a webway) 2x eldar (one is wraith, with a crimson hunter and two wraith knights the other is Dire Avenger and Guardian men max with tank spam[shes the chick gamer btw]), another guy runs Space wolves grey hunter spam with drop pods and a mob of thunder wolves, another runs Bugs with a gaunt overload and two big mamas, then a Dark Angels player whos less problematic, The last is dirty bastard is Necrons with a mob of immortals.  So here is the story there was a time when all these people feared me (mostly 5th edition admitted), but I have lost (badly) the past 7 games, so a few weeks ago when my loss colum sat a 4 in a row I decided to buff my glorious Blood Angels with some smurf marines, well long story short in almost 15 years of playing 40k it was the worse losses I have ever had after the last the realization that my BA was better alone was self evident. Like the holocaust never again shall I stain the glory of the angels with lesser marines. So first things first the next game we are playing is for 3k points with one random ally chosen on game day I have $350 extra to spend on this list. So this is what I have come up with let me know what you think.


HQ-Dante 225pts

Elites- 1st Sang Priest choice: 265pts

                  Sang Priest with jp and hand flamer
                  Sang Priest with jp and Infernus pistol
                  Sang Priest with jp and Infernus pistol

           2ond Sang Priest choice: 270 pts

                  Sang Priest with jp and infernus pistol
                  Sang Priest with jp and infernus pistol
                  Sang Priest with jp and infernus pistol

Troops-
            Assault Squad: 225 pts
                 10x marines, 2 flamers, sarg with power sword and hand flamer
            Assault Squad: 255
                 10x marines, 2 meltaguns, sarg with t-hammer and infernus
            Assault Squad: 260
                 10x marines, 2 meltaguns, sarg with th/ss
            Sang Guard:250
                  5x glaves (swords), 2 infernus pistol, chapter banner
            Sang Guard; 270
                 5x pfists, 2 infernus pistols
            Sang Guard: 230
                  5x glaves (axes), 3 infernus pistols

Heavy Support-
            Stormraven:230
                   tl lascannon, tl m-m, hurricane bolter sponsons

             Stormraven:255
                   tl plasmacannon, typhoon launcher, hurricane bolter sponsons

             Stormravern:230
                    tl assault cannon, tl heavy bolter, hurricane bolter sponsons

I have 35 pts left as it stands, however my question stands how can I improve (if at all) this list, in my collection I still have 3x tac squads, 4x scout sniper squads (of five), every named special character in the codex, a bike squad with p.fist sarg and melts for the other two, 2x honor guard, 3x foot slogging sang priests, a whirlwind, a vindicator, two land raiders, a pread, two baals, two blenders (either as dc or furi), a stern guard, a  ten man vanguard, and three landspeeders with any weapons (most of my stuff is magnetized  also have roughly 20 guys still on the sprues). Help me find out how to bring the Blood Angels back to life.
                 
 

[Kanis]

Firstly welcome to the forum, and I'm sorry to see you've had a rough patch recently with your Angels, but I can respect not wanting to use allies whether or not they're helpful, as I don't want to use any and stand on my own personally.

 

I think that list sounds risky but also incredibly cool as far as all those Sanguinary Guard and Stormravens about! There are many other veterans here that will give you sound advice, but regardless best of luck!

[Quixus]

First of all, you do not need that many Sanguinary priests. One per two squads will be more than enough. Also a "hidden" axe with WS 5 on the priest is nice.

 

With the points you saved buy a Fragioso or two in a drop pod.

 

Generally Dante and Sanguinary Guard Spam is regarded sub par in 6th edition. If you do run thee units of SG, mix the weapons and 5 Power fists is way too much. Go with something like 1 Fist, 2 Axes, 2 Swords, add infernus to taste.

[sanguinius for life]

Would you rock the Dread off of one of the bird or Drop pod?

Should I bring another Assault squad instead of the p. fist sang guard squad?

[Toomanyprojects]

I'd personally drop the hand flamers: not really all that useful (to me anyway) and swap out the infernus pistols for combi meltas. Longer range, same price, pretty much the same impact on the game too :)

 

I'd swap out a Sang guar squad for an assault squad too: no harm in having a little more tactical flexibility and the ability to combat squad.

 

But the most important bit here is that is it's your army: do what you want to with it. And have fun!

[Jolemai]

Allies should be looked at to fill in the holes in your force, so I wouldn't give up on them just yet. Food for thought.

 

As for your list, I'd echo the thoughts above in that your Priests are far too many - although I can see what you're trying to do. However, there's no need for each squad to be autonomous, group your RAS together (one Priest), maybe start with a Sanguinary Guard squad on the ground and put two Priests in with the other squads in the Ravens.

 

I also feel that your wargear options could be better.

• The trouble with blast weapons on a Stormraven is that they are far from optimal. You can never target a flyer with them, they can't be snap shotted and there are generally better options available. For example, arguably the best set up is the TLAC, TLMM, Hurricane Bolters. On average, the TLAC has a better chance of penetrating all but AV14 compared to the TLLC, has more shots and it better against troops. Your getting in close anyway to drop off your Sanguinary Guard so the TLMM is a better choice than the TML and HB are a good choice for PotMS. There are far better options than the Heavy Bolter here.
• Sang Guard are better off doing three Swords and two Axes (or vica versa). Maybe one Power Fist on the guy with the Chapter Banner. You certainly don't need each squad to be armed the same and separately.
• The internet will tell you that pistol upgrades aren't worth it. I would say to lightly sprinkle them in but it's often best to keep things cheap.
• For your RAS, why not go simple with a Power Sword and a Melta Bomb?

[Quixus]

Would you rock the Dread off of one of the bird or Drop pod?

I'd put the the Fragioso (Furioso with Frag Cannon) in a drop pod. Two or three templates on the turn it arrives should clear the LZ nicely.

[Red Fury]

Cut at least half of the priests. 3 at most, 2 is probably fine. Give them power swords or axes and lose the pistols.

Drop all of the pistols from everywhere except 1 or 2 from the Sang Guard squad.

Drop a SG squad for a 10 man DC squad with 3 axes. No jump packs, just put them in a Raven.

Add a Librarian. Take a libby, your HQ, a priest, and combine with an assault squad. Equip the squad sarg naked to either die to challenges or go crazy with a storm shield and axe to have a fighting chance. Dante, priest, and libby will mop of everything else while the sarge handles the challenge. Hell, with this many points why not throw in a chaplain too. It's another 4++ and can take a cheap fist.

Load out 1 raven to hang back and snipe, Lascannons, Typhoon Missiles, and blood strike missiles all have range. Good for anti air too. No hurricane bolters.

The other two get close to drop stuff off so Assault cannons, MMs, and maybe even the hurrucan bolters.

That is a lot of infantry and it's all pretty squishy. You may be well served to stick a unit of TH/SS termies in the other Raven, bring some dreads, or even a predator or two to provide some more hard targets.

I came up with about 3040 points with 3 priests, a chappy, and Ternies (none of the extra stuff). BTW, where is your imperial knight?

[Xenith]

50 marines at 3000pts just isnt too scary, imo. I usually rock 30 at 1000pts.

 

I'd shake up your unit choices a bit. As said, waaaay too many priests. BS4 is a waste of the pistol also, get them an axe or sword, 1 priest per 2 squads. That saves you 265pts right there.

 

I'd then drop the pfist SG unit (dont need that many fists) saving you 495 pts overall.

 

In my opinion, the 3rd raven is overkill, and I'd drop it.

 

Frag dread ideal in a pod, and I'd look at 2x2MM attack bikes at a minimum, for ~360pts.

 

That leaves you 125pts to get a libby with prescience. or swap the 2 bikes and the libby for Meph.

[sanguinius for life]

Okay so first off thanks for the help and the Ideas, here is the latest the game has been pumped to 4k each. And thanks to your ideas and a fresh perspective I've come up with a list that I think is pretty tight and competitive. But before that I want to address the comments you left and my thoughts on them and how I changed the list accordingly. To those that said I had to many priests, in hind sight I was trying to make my guys to defensive (cant blame me with the way I had been getting mopped up), this doesn't play well with an offensive army and is a points waste I have reduced the number to three (a full elites choice). As for the what Quixus said I think that although Dante and Sang Guard as troops are over priced, there is something to be said for a pack of 2+ save jump pack troops all with power weapons is a scary thing and when used as a late game unit by holding them in reserves has worked well for me, however I was being silly with grouping the weapons together (they lacked flexibility that way) I have broken up and shuffled the close combat weapons across the squads, I am reluctant to give up the p. fists however as a result of how many M/C's and wraith I must fight. Dante as my only HQ was a mistake, as a result of the points increase and losing the 3rd stormraven I have added Mephi and the Sanguinor to the list (the effects of Dantes mask was the main reason for wanting to keep him along with the Sang Guard as troops, I chose Meph because well he is :cussing awesome and the Sanguinors buff to a sarg along with his ability to draw and take fire from units before he gets into close combat and kills has always done my Angels proud). And as for Red Fury's comment about my lack of terminators, I played terms a few times but I found there lack of mobility troubling (they never really fit my play style of high Speed and murder often ending up dead way to fast), and also I have ordered the three knight boxed set btw it just wont be here till next week. But over all I think the ideas you guys gave me have helped me come up with a great list' I am playing it on Saturday so any tweaks you guys can think of will be heavily considered. And thank you guys again (I am the only Blood Angel player in the area and its hard to find anybody who know tactica on them).

First F.O.C.

Hq:

    Mephiston 250 pts
    The Sanguinor 275 pts

Elites
    Furioso 135pts
           w/ Frag and heavy flamer on Blood Fist

    Sang priests x3 320pts
       3x jump packs, 2x power fists, 1x lightning claw and 2x infernus pistols (its hard for me to get rid of melta weapons what can I say its an addiction)
    
    Sternguard Veterans 125pts
       2x Multimeltas, 2x bolter, LC and plasma pistol for sarge (the Claw is free so why not and plasma isn't as good as the melta but wish in one hand)

Troops

      3x Assault squads (of ten each) with 2x meltas in each squad and all three sarg's with a thunder hammer 240pts each

      DC (how did I forget these friendly guys?) 120 pts
        3x marines, 2x thunder hammers, 1x chainsword and 3 bolters (yay relentless)

      2x scout squads, all with camo cloaks and sniper rifles, one with a heavy bolter and the other with a missile launcher 100 pts each

Fast Attack

      Bike Squad 125pts
        1x melta gun and p. fist for the sarg

Heavy Support

       Dreadnought 115pts
         Missile Launcher and TL heavy bolter
        
       Stormraven 230 pts
         TL lascannon, TL Multi-Melta and Huricane sponsons (I feel they are the only cost effective upgrade for the Stormravens with luck you can use them as your Machine spirit weapon  and really do some damage to a lingering squad or lay on some wounds [with luck that is] to a Nid creature or destroy a DE shoebox)

       Stormraven 230 pts
         TL Heavy Bolters, TL Assault Cannon and Hurricane Sponsons

Second F.O.C.
HQ

       Comander Dante 225 pts

Troops

       DC (why have one when you can have two?) 80 pts
          4x marines, bolters and chainswords
  
       Sang Guard 270 pts
          Chapter Banner, 2x infernus, 2x power fists

       Sang Guard 230 pts
          1x power fist, 2x infernus
       
       Sang Guard 250 pts
          2x power fist, 3x infernus

Heavy support
      
        Predator 100 pts
           Autocannon, Heavy bolter sponsons

With 73 marines it should be more in line with the men-maxers expectations while not sacrificing to much of my air superiority I have enjoyed (I often run 3-5 flyers in my lists) while still not losing my 2+ troops choices and still bringing plenty of Death Star units via my nasty HQ selections. But please let me know if I am missing something. And thanks again to the guys who helped me pull my head out of my ass to get this list right.

[Jolemai]

4k will be fun and I understand that a combination of Dante and the Sanguinor is fun to use. Some feedback though:

 

• Despite having two FOCs, you can still only have one unit of Death Company outside of a) Apocalypse or b) Astorath.
• Make sure those Thunderhammer wielding DC have the Bolters! This gives you more flexibility with the remaining members.
• You mention a MC heavy meta, so can I suggest you swapping out your Thunderhammers on the Sergeants for a Power Maul? You'll go at initiative (good for challenges too), strike at STR 8 on the charge (with a priest in tow) and they only need to fail one save for Concussive to kick in.
• Alternatively, consider the Melta Bomb as these can be used against MCs in combat (don't forget your Krak Grenades for combat and shooting too!)
• The points saved can then go towards a Magna Grapple (extra STR 8 shot is always good), giving your Predator Lascannon Sponsons and giving your AV12 Dreadnought something better than a TLHB (such as an Assault Cannon or an TLAC)

[sanguinius for life]

I was unaware of the inability to run 2 DC's with two organization charts (tears...) think I'll combine them to one. And do you really recommend using the Magna Grapple? I have tried to use it many times since the 5th edition codex dropped with lacking success (if you back it I'll give it another shot). And honestly I have become a fan of thunderhammers cause it seems rarely do I get to go first in close combats where it would make a difference anyways (with the Dark Eldar being my biggest bane in CC anyways) but if so how would you recommend going about modeling them to mauls? I have bits for miles but nothing a would call a power maul? and good call on the dread weapons going to try the assault cannon for equal point why not more shots after all and rending (although not as good as it used to be). oh and all my DC have bolters (got to love relentless!). Anyways good call on the dread weapons, but please let me know about the power mauls mods as soon as you can.

[Toomanyprojects]

There is a way to run more than one DCunit, but it does mean including Astorath...