Primarch Weapon Variety (or lack thereof)

[Carach]

alpharius having just a bolter (perhaps a pretty swish one, to give them some individuality) would be pretty cool imo. cos thats what theyre all about.

a/o will probably be the last geezer(s) done because they present a bit of a pickle heh.

Perturabo to come with his giant robotic buddies!

[infyrana]

I think it's more about their rules, armour, ranged weapons and fighting styles than their melee weapons if you want variety.  Check history, bladed weapons and bludgeoning tools in all their variety have been used for a pastime for a reason.  Obviously variety has been achieved through the years.  The obscure weaponry is very niche or specific to targets and types of wars for example (some well known examples of this come from Japan and China).  Basic armaments that exist in the armouries or where you grew up are going to be what you train with and what you develop good skills with, so why not use what you know?  Of course, it could just be that the artifacts found are basic types of weapons and that no gladiatorial-power-nets or magical nunchuka's and fantasy based quivers of neverendingarrows were found yet.

 

Personally I am not a fan of spears or the like, they work great from behind a shield wall or to stop cavalry advances etc.  But for close combat whilst wearing bulky armour as an individual person, often with limited room to move, wings on your back or jump packs etc, they seem out of place and ill fitted for wielding to their fullest.

 

At the end of the day - there can only be so many rules before the book is overdone and you need Tomes of Magical Awesome Rare Weird Exotic Weapons That Should Never Exist to fill out all the entries :)

 

I believe the ranged weaponry might hold more unique variety if you look into it, that and the armour or fighting styles.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

For all the people talking about A&O using multi-headed flails or some such. . . I just can't agree.  Besides being difficult to use and dangerous to allies in the vicinity, they just don't seem Alpha Legion-y to me.  The Legion is about practicality and stealth, and a flail represents neither.  If anything, they're probably going to carry gladius-style powerblades.  They're fairly easy to use in both melee and a duel -- no weird balance issues like with curved swords such as sabres and scimitars, and they're edged on both sides for utility -- and because every Legionnaire carries a gladius, it's one more way they can hide in plain sight.

[Greyall]

Still wouldn't put it past them to have a more unusual or even xenos weapon. They're pragmatic, but not necessarily straightforward, those twins.

[Demus Ragnok]

The characters of the primarchs had been defined for some time before FW gave them stats and models. Had they gone against what the primarchs are known for the universe would have collapsed under the spiritual pressure of the gestalt nerd rage.

[Excessus]

Neither Alpharius nor Omegon is using any weapon in any book to my knowledge...

[KBA]

For me, weapon variation pales in comparison to the ludicrousness of some Primarchs having a 3+ save. Throw-away squad sergeants get access to artifice their armor to +2, but in certain cases, a Primarch, Lord of his Legion doesn't? Say what? One big Pffftt from me :P   

[Kais Klip]

It’s the combination of the toughness entry together with the save that conveys how hard it is to wound a primarch, and some of them being relegated to a 3+ save is a fair cost if we want to stay away from blasphemous D20 territory that would need to be taken to convey all the armour variance.

 

As for A&O equipment, Omegon uses a standard issue bolter to gun down a mechanicum search and destroy party at the end of Deliverance Lost. I would have no qualms with Alpharius possessing relatively standard equipment if he adds a notable twist to it, say a bolter-gunslinger to wipe away enemy squads and have better time-to-kill ratio than Angron (rewards of practicality). I’m happy with a 400 point kill-team condensed to a 40mm base. 

[Castrmen Orth]

Pretty sure that corax whip is custom made for him by the mechanicum if i remember correctly.

 

I think it's even mentioned in one of the books that he uses it because he appreciates the irony of using a Tyrants weapon to fight for freedom

[infyrana]

For me, weapon variation pales in comparison to the ludicrousness of some Primarchs having a 3+ save. Throw-away squad sergeants get access to artifice their armor to +2, but in certain cases, a Primarch, Lord of his Legion doesn't? Say what? One big Pffftt from me

Hehe, maybe this is part of the "size" thing, with them being much larger, they are easier to hit ? That or there are some blatant gaps in their armour where they fighting without pieces (like a distinct lack of helmets for example, that and Khârn's bare arm lol). Who knows their thinking :)

[KBA]

I get all the balance issues of why it's done, it just comes off as silly in a fluff context. I've yet to hear a good fluff argument for it. My helmetless captain still gets his 2+, so I'm not buying that one. But this is off topic, and the last thing I want on these boards is another mod chomping on my bits, so back to Weapon Variety!

Hoping Corax gets his whip as an option to his 2 claws. Variation would be nice to see there.

[Conn Eremon]

Or it is a case of rules being done for balancing rather than fluffy reasons.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Pretty sure that corax whip is custom made for him by the mechanicum if i remember correctly.

 

I think it's even mentioned in one of the books that he uses it because he appreciates the irony of using a Tyrants weapon to fight for freedom

 

Now you mention this it rings a bell and I retract my previous assertion.

 

I think giving Alpharius/Omegon a single bolter but special ammo and a rule like the Moritat where they can keep shooting so long as they hit would be good. It's not their fancy equipment but their primarch skills that allow them to be effective.

 

Speaking of Alpharius and Omegon, do you think that there should be a pair of models or just one model to represent "Alpharius/Omegon" and you can choose which it is from a fluff perspective? I think that a key part of their secret is that it's secret. Alpharius seems to his enemies (and allies) capable of being in more places than he should be able to, able to swiftly relocate to where he is needed. Having two primarchs also provides redundancy in terms of command chain. Having the two of them fighting side by side would negate these advantages so I think that you should only get one of them in a tabletop army.

[Kais Klip]

Aye, fielding both twins throws away the advantage of making the Lion execute half his communication tent because Alpharius can’t possibly be both decimating Guilliman’s force and driving right into Dorn’s gullet.

[Ace Debonair]

For all the people talking about A&O using multi-headed flails or some such. . . I just can't agree. Besides being difficult to use and dangerous to allies in the vicinity, they just don't seem Alpha Legion-y to me. The Legion is about practicality and stealth, and a flail represents neither. If anything, they're probably going to carry gladius-style powerblades. They're fairly easy to use in both melee and a duel -- no weird balance issues like with curved swords such as sabres and scimitars, and they're edged on both sides for utility -- and because every Legionnaire carries a gladius, it's one more way they can hide in plain sight.

Actually, I was saying they'd be cool for Alpha Legion Champions, rather than the Primarchs.

But then I've always like morningstars and maces and so forth, so that's more personal bias than anything sensible.

I'd be totally cool with Alpharius and Omegon using standard issue gear.

[Excessus]

Maybe A&O kept a falx or two from Nurth... :)

[Carach]

Neither Alpharius nor Omegon is using any weapon in any book to my knowledge...

think he has some kind of sword in Legion.

 

if that was the real alpharius anyway.

 

one of the rules when he/they come out has gotta be to roll for a chance to transfer his abilities to another guy lol...

[Perrin]

That would be cool, like if Alpharius is killed it turns out that wasn't him at all, and you can nominate another AL marine to turn into him. Might be a bit OP though.

 

Could have a single Primarch model that can be either Alpharius or Omegon, then a special rule where they can choose another Legion unit to be the other twin, that other unit getting a small upgrade but not Primarch level.

 

 

With regards to the weaponry, I can't see any reason for anyone to use a spear. They're supposed to be used for anti-cav or for inexperienced/untrained soldiers to be able to take down a larger/stronger animal/opponent and keep them at arms length. Marines have no need for that, as they're nearly always the biggest and strongest fighters in any theatre. Even fighting huge xenos creatures it would be more efficient to gun it down, using a spear would be very inefficient for a marine or a Primarch. They should just be covered in spikes and thrown into the enemy really, berserker style.

[reckoning]

With regards to the weaponry, I can't see any reason for anyone to use a spear. They're supposed to be used for anti-cav or for inexperienced/untrained soldiers to be able to take down a larger/stronger animal/opponent and keep them at arms length. Marines have no need for that, as they're nearly always the biggest and strongest fighters in any theatre. Even fighting huge xenos creatures it would be more efficient to gun it down, using a spear would be very inefficient for a marine or a Primarch. They should just be covered in spikes and thrown into the enemy really, berserker style.

 

The ancient Spartans would like a word with you...

[depthcharge12]

 

With regards to the weaponry, I can't see any reason for anyone to use a spear. They're supposed to be used for anti-cav or for inexperienced/untrained soldiers to be able to take down a larger/stronger animal/opponent and keep them at arms length. Marines have no need for that, as they're nearly always the biggest and strongest fighters in any theatre. Even fighting huge xenos creatures it would be more efficient to gun it down, using a spear would be very inefficient for a marine or a Primarch. They should just be covered in spikes and thrown into the enemy really, berserker style.

 

The ancient Spartans would like a word with you...

 

The Roman Legions would also like a word....

 

 

Sanguinius has the spear of Telesto and the custodes have theirs.

 

 

The only reason they would have little use is because of modern firearms and spears are kind of awkward to hold on your back

[GhostMalone]

Sang needs a sword and spear

 

Mwahahahaha

[Perrin]

The "inexperienced/untrained" was more about Middle-Ages/Renaissance era infantry. The common foot-soldiers would be equipped with halberds and other pole-arms, but yes I concede that Spartans and Roman Legions don't fall into that category.

Although I don't see how that's relevant, as I don't think a Roman Legion or a Spartan army would really stand much of a chance against a Space Marine Legion, which I'm pretty sure is what I was talking about The point was, spears/pikes/halberds/pole-arms are used for integrated-infantry tactics and formations (including Spartans and Romans), which isn't something that Primarchs and Space Marines use.

I'm struggling to word this well, but in essence; Spears =

EDIT: After I posted that reply an image of Sang with a sword in one hand and a spear in the other, wings flared out behind him burst into my head...

It was beautiful

[Conn Eremon]

Feth if I care if spears are 'useful' in 30k/40k combat or not. When you have warriors like the Space Marines wielding weapons like chainswords and thunder hammers, it kind of becomes evident that their entire selection of equipment is based solely on the rule of cool.

[Wade Garrett]

I think the Zulu would also take issue with the idea that a spear should only be used against cavalry or by untrained troops.

[reckoning]

Or samurai for that matter. But enough beating up on Perrin, he does make a valid point. Astartes really have no need for spears given their usual tactics.

 

However, if a primarch can wield a scythe, power whip, and/or what basically amounts to huge, powered pantera claws, I see no reason why he couldnt also use the actually functional spear.