The Outcast D.. wait did that just happen?

[Aegnor]

The punch through power armour because you're angry bit is the biggest *record scratch* moment I can think of in the HH so far. There have been other issues that were far more significant or more annoying but for sheer silliness.

 

I can see that berserk rage might let you hit harder than you normally would because you act beyond the normal limits your body works within to avoid self-inflicted injury. That does not equate to becoming able to punch through custodian battle plate. Just stupid and broke one of the rules of good story telling in 40k - don't stint on showing how good the faction you're show-casing is, but not at the cost of turning the opposing faction into a joke.

 

Outcast Dead had some good bits, but overall a pretty weak addition to the storyline that introduced several poor ideas or additions (from my point of view).

 

McNeil is a funny author - he "hits for the fences" with the result that every now and again he'll smash one out of the park (Fulgrim, Mechanicum) , but he also has some awful misses.

[Kol Saresk]

Again I wouldn't have a problem with it, if his hand had broken. I mean come on! He killed the Death Guard with a shuttle crash! The Death Guard! The guy from the Legion known to take all kinds of physical abuse and keep on trucking where other Astartes would have died.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Hell, Guilliman was almost naked and he killed a whole squad of heavily armed alpha legion with just a desk, a bust of some dead guy and his chuck norris round house.

Which book does this happen in!? I would very much like to read the Alpha Legion getting what's coming to them for a change.

[AdamR]

Maybe it did break, but 'cause he's so badass hes doesn't even mention it :p

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Hell, Guilliman was almost naked and he killed a whole squad of heavily armed alpha legion with just a desk, a bust of some dead guy and his chuck norris round house.

Which book does this happen in!? I would very much like to read the Alpha Legion getting what's coming to them for a change.

Unremembered Empire.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

 

 

Hell, Guilliman was almost naked and he killed a whole squad of heavily armed alpha legion with just a desk, a bust of some dead guy and his chuck norris round house.

Which book does this happen in!? I would very much like to read the Alpha Legion getting what's coming to them for a change.

Unremembered Empire.

I'm still reading Mark of Calth. Though I've been destracted by Melodrax at the moment. Good to know I've got something to look forward to :) also I'm glad to see the Alpha Legion actually getting a rounded portrayal now rather than being the most sneaky super space ninjas who can desguise themself as a pot plant and even a primarch can't tell the difference. Apologies for the rant back to the topic.

 

Does anyone else think Outcast Dead would have been better as a short story? I mean like alot of people are saying it had one or two interesting moment's but for the amount of information we actually got from it I don't think it needed to be a book on its own. Stories like Prince of Crows, Little Horus, or Crimson Fist would have made better stand alone titles in my oppinion.

[E.G.J.]

  Does anyone else think Outcast Dead would have been better as a short story? I mean like alot of people are saying it had one or two interesting moment's but for the amount of information we actually got from it I don't think it needed to be a book on its own. Stories like Prince of Crows, Little Horus, or Crimson Fist would have made better stand alone titles in my oppinion.

 

Yeah I agree that it would probably have been better as a short story.  Didn't think about that before, but I remember thinking that it took forever for the story to get going.  I didn't really start to enjoy it until about 200 pages in. 

[daveNYC]

Two problems with Outcast Dead:

1) Every one of the Astartes are super special awesome flying ponies.  The Thousand Son is awesome at all things psyker and has none of the specializations of the Legion's Fellowships, the WE can kill Custodes with his bare hands, the Death Guard can get shot a million times and not die, etc.  

 

2) The timing of the explosion from Magnus' pop-in visit vs. the actual timing that we know from 1k Sons, False Gods, etc. is totally borked unless you read some other third novel that explains (poorly) that mess.

[Excessus]

 

Hell, Guilliman was almost naked and he killed a whole squad of heavily armed alpha legion with just a desk, a bust of some dead guy and his chuck norris round house.

Which book does this happen in!? I would very much like to read the Alpha Legion getting what's coming to them for a change.

You do know that the Alpha Legion gets their arse handed to them all the time, right?

 

The only proper battlefield win I can think of that they partake in is Istvaan V. All the AL-centered stories (Legion, Deliverance Lost) ends up with the Alpha Legion "retreating" or just dying (Deliverance Lost, The Serpent Beneath).

[Wade Garrett]

Deliverance Lost.

 

Where three Alphas and "Omegon" ensured the Raven Guard would never rebuild to their pre Isstvan strength and stole the secrets to making Space Marines 2.0 in the process.

 

If that's a Hydra defeat I'd hate to see what they call a win.

[Excessus]

Deliverance Lost.

 

Where three Alphas and "Omegon" ensured the Raven Guard would never rebuild to their pre Isstvan strength and stole the secrets to making Space Marines 2.0 in the process.

 

If that's a Hydra defeat I'd hate to see what they call a win.

Yeah that happened, but that wasn't their main goal (which was to take over the Raven Guard from within). And a win is where all the marines that you've gotten to know during the story (and all the other Alpha Legionnaires as well) gets killed off at the end? Yeah, that's a win for sure...

[Wade Garrett]

I disposed of my copy of DL two days after the first read through, so I may be way off base, but I am pretty sure the overall plan was to let Corax dig up the Primarch Project and steal it.

 

Not turn the XIX into the XX-1/2

[Excessus]

Sure, whatever. I don't even have interest enough to walk over to my bookcase and trying to find the damn place where it was written...

 

 

...also, you did notice I said battlefield win, right? Deliverance Lost was in no way an outright battle between the Alpha Legion and the Raven Guard...

[Perrin]

How is Legion an Alpha Legion battlefield loss? The natives blew up their own planet to try and take the AL with them when they realised they couldn't win, the AL escaped in time. They then destroyed the Imperial Army contingent that was with them.

That's a win in my book.

Every time I see this thread all I see is "The Outcast D"

[[TA]Typher]

Wade is correct. The AL came off looking awesome in Deliverance lost, while Corax became a window licking stump after the first 40 pages.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Sure, whatever. I don't even have interest enough to walk over to my bookcase and trying to find the damn place where it was written...

 

 

...also, you did notice I said battlefield win, right? Deliverance Lost was in no way an outright battle between the Alpha Legion and the Raven Guard...

 

Mutters something about Alpha Legion being alergic to realy battlefields.

Wade is correct. The AL came off looking awesome in Deliverance lost, while Corax became a window licking stump after the first 40 pages.

Agreed which, bringing it back to topic (ish) cause I feel bad for swaying it away in the first place was another 'erm ok why did that just happen!?' moment. Maybe my ire should be more focused towards Gav Thorpe rather than the Alphas but either way the way an entire legion were portrayed as being absolute idiots for 90% of that book really made me struggle to read it. Especially since before that Raven's flight was one of my favourite pieces of the heresy series.

[Wade Garrett]

I do have a relevant question:

 

Did someone say the timeline foul up in Outcast Dead and False Gods is resolved in a 3rd book?

 

Which one? How?

[Kol Saresk]

I do have a relevant question:

 

Did someone say the timeline foul up in Outcast Dead and False Gods is resolved in a 3rd book?

 

Which one? How?

Galaxy in Flames? Wouldn't know. Supposedly it gets fixed in the audiobook Wolf Hunt, but I wouldn't know since I haven't read it.

[[TA]Typher]

While I know it's still off topic (even though it's my topic ) I will say that the AL kick major butt in Scars

How is Legion an Alpha Legion battlefield loss? The natives blew up their own planet to try and take the AL with them when they realised they couldn't win, the AL escaped in time. They then destroyed the Imperial Army contingent that was with them.

That's a win in my book.

Every time I see this thread all I see is "The Outcast D"

Don't forget their portrayal in Scars... *** SCARS SPOILERS ****

... they damage a White Scars fleet, before the Scars escape and bloody up the SW pretty bad, causing them to flee and force them to have to hide in a nebula, which drives Russ to incredible rage.

All and all anyone that says that the AL hasn't come off looking good in the HH books so far hasn't been reading them.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

THEY'RE IN SCARS TOO! For crying out loud this is exactly what I'm sick of, I don't mind that they're good at what they do but for thrones sake! At present they are winning the heresy all by themselves. It all just feels so unbalanced. I realise the traitors have to be ascendant for a while but give some of the other legions a showing I mean christ has Mortarian just been twiddling his thumbs while his brother infiltrates EVERY LOYALIST LEGION!?

[Kol Saresk]

So far they've only infiltrated two. Yeez. Everywhere I look its "The Traitors got it too good" that or "Loyalists ain't got it good enough" this. Yowzah.

[Perrin]

THEY'RE IN SCARS TOO! For crying out loud this is exactly what I'm sick of, I don't mind that they're good at what they do but for thrones sake! At present they are winning the heresy all by themselves. It all just feels so unbalanced. I realise the traitors have to be ascendant for a while but give some of the other legions a showing I mean christ has Mortarian just been twiddling his thumbs while his brother infiltrates EVERY LOYALIST LEGION!?

 

They've always been involved in delaying the White Scars and Space Wolves before the Siege, it isn't a new development. They show up in force, not as infiltrators, and don't do much.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I just think they are getting far too much page time and it's leading to other, in my oppinion, more interesting Legions getting neglected. We have barely heard a peep out of the Death Guard and Son's of Horus (I know the latter is supposed to be changing soon) post isstvan. The last we heard from the Night Lord's a large portion of them were being held captive abord the Lions flagship and Night Haunter so loose somewhere abord it lets hear some more on that.

 

Like I said above maybe my issue should be with the authors for this not the legion themselves but it's easier to hate ficticious characters than people I respect.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

And I think the Space Wolves are getting too much screen time.  How do they ever seem to fight Legion-scale battles if their entire strength is spread to the four winds, sending packs to every corner of the galaxy?

 

The Alpha Legion has always been an underdeveloped faction within the fluff.  When the drum total of their background was the Index Astartes article and a quarter-page blurb in the 3.5 C:CSM, their whole schtick was "attack from more than one direction at once" combined with "hidden bases used to raise cults" and the occasional "misdirection of Imperial resources."  What we're getting now is adding actual depth and character to the XXth, which can only be a good thing.  Whether you enjoy it or not is irrelevant to the rest of the community, and it's especially insulting to Alpha Legion fans who have been waiting patiently for our time in the sun.

 

This is especially grievous when you consider that the Alpha Legion has become the Chaos Marine punching bag of the 41st Millennium.

[Wade Garrett]

Having read "The Long Games at Carcharias" and "We Are One", I am afraid I must greet the notion of the Alpha Legion as the 41st millenia Chaos punching bags with hysterical giggling.