Slave to Darkness Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Having a debate with someone over the usage of the Telepathy psychic power 'Puppet Master', he claims knights are immune to psychic powers, as I don't have the rule book near me I was wondering if anybody could clear this up for me please. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 FYI there's a rules section of the forum near the bottom of the main page. I'm sure one of the mods will move it (that's where the rules geeks hang out ) EDIT: Section is - Rites of War - Offical Rules A quick flick through my rulebook and I can't see anything about vehicles not being targeted by psykic powers (witch fire specifically). There may be something in the Knights codex (White Dwarf) or that I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Imperial Knights are in no way immune to the effects of psychic powers. - Just checked the Imperial Knights Codex and there is no special rule that renders them immune to psychic powers. Puppet Master is a focussed witchfire that effects an enemy model (that can be any model, including a vehicle). A Knight is, in fact, a very good target for Puppet Master. (Lone model with a high powered ranged weapon). Seeing as this is a Rules question, I'll be moving this to the OR. =][= Further edit =][= The quoted Puppet Master psychic power is here, for reference: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286340-puppet-master/?hl=%2Bpuppet+%2Bmaster&do=findComment&comment=3584271 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 ahh thanks guys, thats stopped my lil guys from worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 On a slight sidebar, I had someone claim that if they had multiple models with Puppet Master, they claim that they can possess the model multiple times and have it fire multiple times (good thing to do with a Super-Heavy on the board, if one can). When I challenged him on it, he told me to read the rules for the Psychic Power, and it says that the model shoots as if it was one of their models, but one is not allowed to have a model fire multiple times in the same Phase unless an exception is made, and Puppet Master does not seem to provide the exception. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Kristoff - Previously discussed: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281813-puppetmaster/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Kristoff - Previously discussed: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281813-puppetmaster/ Not very much. It was quickly glossed over with no rule justifications, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Just pointed out that the issue had been raised before. But OK: Puppet Master is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 24". The target immediately makes a shooting attack as if it were one of your models (this cannot target his own unit). After resolving the attack, the target shakes free of the Psyker's control and immediately reverts to the owning player's control. Shooting Sequence: 1 - Nominate a Unit to shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to fire, but has not yet fired this turn. 2 - Choose a Target... The act of "Nominating a unit to shoot" would be bypassed by Puppet Master, as the power Nominates the model that is to shoot. Therefore the check on whether or not the model has already fired is never activated as it happens in the "Nominate a unit to shoot" step, which is essentially ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Note: Superheavy vehicles, and gargantuan creatures, of ALL stripes used to be auto-immune to any psychic power that didnt have a strength value. This was simply part of being a model of that type. This has changed with the new apocalypse/FW rule/escalation rules. This is probably the source of your opponents confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Just pointed out that the issue had been raised before. But OK: Puppet Master is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 24". The target immediately makes a shooting attack as if it were one of your models (this cannot target his own unit). After resolving the attack, the target shakes free of the Psyker's control and immediately reverts to the owning player's control. Shooting Sequence: 1 - Nominate a Unit to shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to fire, but has not yet fired this turn. 2 - Choose a Target... The act of "Nominating a unit to shoot" would be bypassed by Puppet Master, as the power Nominates the model that is to shoot. Therefore the check on whether or not the model has already fired is never activated as it happens in the "Nominate a unit to shoot" step, which is essentially ignored. By applying the power you are "nominating" the unit, nor does power specifically state to ignore the limitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think thats a false correlation. Can you find me a quote that says targetting a unit with a psychic power is nominating it?I agree with you RAI, but Id like to see something more solid than an opinion for RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think thats a false correlation. Can you find me a quote that says targetting a unit with a psychic power is nominating it?Can you demonstrate it as NOT nominating it? Personally, I would suspect that targeting a unit with the specific objective to cause it to shoot is a definite case of "nominating" it.I agree with you RAI, but Id like to see something more solid than an opinion for RAW.Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Sure, simple- as a witchfire power, Im targetting it, not nominating it. Im also not shooting with a unit, but rather a model, so it would be inappropriate for me to consider nominating the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Sure, simple- as a witchfire power, Im targetting it, not nominating it. Im also not shooting with a unit, but rather a model, so it would be inappropriate for me to consider nominating the unit. But in order for it to shoot, it must be designated or selected as a shooting model, aka nominated. Nomination doesn't always mean a deliberate selection, and can be the result of a random event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 On a slight sidebar, I had someone claim that if they had multiple models with Puppet Master, they claim that they can possess the model multiple times and have it fire multiple times (good thing to do with a Super-Heavy on the board, if one can). When I challenged him on it, he told me to read the rules for the Psychic Power, and it says that the model shoots as if it was one of their models, but one is not allowed to have a model fire multiple times in the same Phase unless an exception is made, and Puppet Master does not seem to provide the exception. Thoughts? I agree completely. The shooting sequence provides that the model must not have fired yet if they are eligible to be nominated to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 They also have to be one of your models normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 And the power specifies that you control the enemy model as if it were your own. If you want to be that technical about it, the power would be useless since the rules for shooting provide that you must do so with one of your models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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