Fluff questions on Inquisition

[jeffersonian000]

People just can't wrap their minds around the fact that the Black Carapace does absolutely nothing on its own to improve a Marine's ability to use Powered Armor, nor is a Black Carapace even necessary to use Powered Armor. What a Black Carapace does do, besides increasing a Marine's inherent toughness, is provide anchor points for neural interface connections used to interface with their armor. Titan crews use the same interfaces to pilot their war machines.

 

You know who doesn't use implanted neural interfaces? Sisters of Battle and Imperial Knights.

 

Inquisitors may or may not use implanted neural interfaces to better control a set of Powered Armor, yet a Inquisitor that is a heavy user of PA might also have enough interface plugs to make an AdMech Magos burn with envy.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

People just can't wrap their minds around the fact that the Black Carapace does absolutely nothing on its own to improve a Marine's ability to use Powered Armor, nor is a Black Carapace even necessary to use Powered Armor. What a Black Carapace does do, besides increasing a Marine's inherent toughness, is provide anchor points for neural interface connections used to interface with their armor. Titan crews use the same interfaces to pilot their war machines.

Actually you're incorrect. Black carapace has no impact on a Marine's resilience, that's entirely due to his enhanced physique and the other 18 implants. It's entire purpose is to allow Marines to use power armour like a second skin. That's why the Emperor invented it. It literally serves no other purpose, and its the 19th implant they recieve. Until you get black carapace you aren't even allowed to wear training power armour, once you have it you're considered a full battle-brother. 

 

Black carapace isn't necessary, it's true, but it does give Marines the ability to fight and move faster in power armour than anyone else. That's why Marines have higher Initiative and Weapon Skill, it's a consequence of not just better training and better senses, but also their superior dexterity and speed power armour grants them. It also explains why they are Strength 4 instead of the more human S3 Sisters have. 

 

You know who doesn't use implanted neural interfaces? Sisters of Battle and Imperial Knights.

Sisters do not, you are correct. That's why their statline is functionally the same as a Stormtrooper, except for the armour save. 

 

Imperial Knights most certainly do use implanted neural interfaces. Its explicitly mentioned a dozen times in the codex. They can't bond with their Knight any other way. It's not the same as black carapace, but broadly speaking the two share the same function of making the external carapace the warrior is inside of an extension of their own body. Responsiveness is critical in both cases, Marines are substantially weaker outside of their warplate, although obviously not to the same degree as a Knight pilot. 

[jeffersonian000]

Black Carapace is a sheath of Bio Plastic, to which holes are punched to mount interface plugs. It is the excessive amount of interface plugs that nets a Marine's improved performance, not the sheet of plastic the plugs are attached to.

 

Without a Black Carapace, interface plugs need to be hard mounted to either bone or a cybernetic augmentation that is already wired into the users nervous system, as seen with the Adeptus Mechanicus as well as many high profile Imperial citizens. AdMechs achieve the same level of connectivity as Marines by mounting more plugs, and by replacing limbs and eyes/ears with hard connections. The High Lords of Terra seem to prefer augmatic replacements. Space Marines, on the other hand, have a entire under layer of skin formed by a tough sheath of plastic that provides a solid mounting for enough plugs to not require limb replacement (unless the Marines are Iron Hands).

 

SJ

[thade]

Both sides are right here. Certainly the B.C. is fundamental in interfacing with power armor as an Astartes...but it is a sheath of solid material under their skin, haha. It can't help but offer some small measure of protection for their internal organs (lungs and hearts in particular). Certainly the armor is better, and the carapace won't stop a bolter round, but it'll shrug off knives, fists, and glancing hits from lasrifles. Marines are layer upon layer of defenses: their training, physiology, and armor all work in concert to make them especially difficult to kill.

[Valerian]

"This enclosing suit of armour is worn almost exclusively by the Space Marines. It is made from thick ceramite plates and would be heavy and cumbersome but for electrically motivated fibre bundles implanted in the armour that replicate the movements of the wearer and supplement his considerable strength still further. The last implant of each marine is known as the Black Carapace which is a layer inserted beneath the skin itself fitted with neural sensors and transfusion points. These artificial plug-in points mesh with features integral to the powered armour allowing it to function; without the carapace the armour would be worse than useless. Power armour is therefore the most distinctive feature of a marine and is therefore the true mark of the Adeptus Astartes."  Index Astartes on Marines

 

"There are nineteen varieties of gene-seed corresponding to the nineteen different super-human organs which are surgically implanted into the Space Marine.  Most chapters have existed for thousands of years. During that time, gene-seed belonging to some chapters has mutated. This has resulted in changes in the exact nature of the artificially cultured organs. Such changes, may sometimes make an implant useless. In other circumstances changes in an organ might reduce its effectiveness, or cause new and strange effects. Whatever the result, it will affect the entire chapter - all Space Marines belonging to a chapter share implants cultured from the same original gene-seed.

 

As well as mutant implants, many chapters have lost one or more types of gene-seed due to accident, genetic failure, or some other cause. Very few chapters therefore possess all nineteen implants. All possess the carapace implant (phase 19). It is this implant which marks a Space Marine for what he is - irrespective of other implants, training or psycho-surgery."

 

"Phase 19 -- Black Carapace. This is the last and the most distinctive implant. It looks like a film of black plastic when it's growing in the tanks. This is removed from its culture-solution and cut into sheets which are implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso. Within a few hours the tissue expands, hardens on the outside, and sends invasive neural bundles deep inside the Marine.  After several months the carapace will have fully matured and the recipient is then fitted with neural sensors and transfusion points cut into the hardened carapace. These artificial 'plug-in' points mesh with features integral to the powered armour, such as the monitoring, medicinal and maintenance units. Without the benefit of a black carapace a Space Marine's armour is relatively useless."  The Creation of a Space Marine.

 

I like how the fluff here says that Power Armour without it would be "worse than useless," and "relatively useless," but we obviously have other forces (Sisters, for example) in the fluff that use Power Armour with no Carapace.  Oh well, they've never been great at maintaining consistency.

 

"Power armour: Constructed from thick ceramite plates, the power armour worn by the Adepta Sororitas is based upon the same archaic systems as that worn by the brethren of the Adeptus Astartes. It provides the same degree of armoured protection, yet must forego the more advanced support systems and strength enhancing abilities, for the Sisters of Battle do not possess a Space Marine’s ability to interface directly with their own armour. Despite this, the Sisters of Battle are one of the few forces outside of the Adeptus Astartes to be granted the right to wear such formidable armour, and they are trained to use its abilities to deadly effect."  Sisters of Battle 6e digital codex

 

​Clearly, the armor without the Black Carapace isn't "useless."

 

Valerian

[jeffersonian000]

Space Marines actually do have a set a armor available to them that is of the same quality as Sororitas armor, only built on a scale to fit a Space Marine: Artificer Armor.

 

SJ

[Heru]

@Valerian: I believe it is more along the line of Space Marine power armour that would be less than useless. Sororita power armour is similar but it isn't the same scale and doesn't carry all the extra features (that increase weight and bulk further). If you can't interface with the Astartes features you'll be trying to carry massive amounts of dead weight. Ie less than useless.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think that's the take away from GW's own fluff about it. Sisters have scaled-down power armour with all the extra gear removed, as well as being functionally a smaller suit as its designed to fit human women, not hulking gene-modified giants. Hence why Sisters have inferior stats to Marines, but the same save; power armour is still ceramite and adamantium, but Marines have all the extra life support, combat drug injectors, the superior connection to their armour via the black carapace, greater carrying capacity etc. 

 

So clearly, black carapace does give a significant advantage to Marines when it comes to their armour. 

[Kilofix]

Btw, one of the Dark Heresy books mentions that the lack of Black Carapace means that Inquisitors are just slightly slower, with regards to mobility, when in PA, than Space Marines. I just forget which book it was exactly as I just read a ton of them over the last week or so.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Btw, one of the Dark Heresy books mentions that the lack of Black Carapace means that Inquisitors are just slightly slower, with regards to mobility, when in PA, than Space Marines. I just forget which book it was exactly as I just read a ton of them over the last week or so.

Would make sense. Their body is only human, even with an exo-suit around it they have human levels of stamina and mobility. The whole power of Marines comes from the joining of the amazing technology they wield and wear, plus the amazing biology they enjoy thanks to the 19 implants. Not surprising that when you just put a regular human inside of power armour, the system suffers a bit. 

[Kilofix]

Answering my own questions here as I've since learned a few things from Dark Heresy and Inquisitor (54mm).

 

There are lots of 'secret' or 'borderline' Radical Inquisitors but they generally aren't hunted until an Inquisitorial High Conclave (gathering of top Inqs) judges them as heretical or traitorious. The only exception may be the Phaenonites that have already been judged by the High Conclave as KOS.

 

Inquisitors don't usually openly have Xenos as Acolytes but there are lots of examples of Radical Inquisitors making deals with Xenos (like Dark Eldar, etc.) or using them as mercenaries.

 

The only example of an Inquisitor in TDA that I've found is Natius Osrinn. There may be others but I haven't come across them.

 

Inquisitors wear whatever colors they want and it has been said that a group of different Inquisitors can make for a very colorful group.

 

Inquisitors in Power Armor are slightly slower in reaction and mobility than Space Marines.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

There are lots of 'secret' or 'borderline' Radical Inquisitors but they generally aren't hunted until an Inquisitorial High Conclave (gathering of top Inqs) judges them as heretical or traitorious. The only exception may be the Phaenonites that have already been judged by the High Conclave as KOS.

Which goes to the heart of the paradox that is the Inquisition. It's a loose brotherhood of like-minded individuals, beholden to no one but eachother (by dint of promotion, none of them can be an Inquisitor without being made one by an existing member) and the Emperor. Their mission being to save the Imperium from itself, whilst each interprets how that mission should be pursued. Hence my point about politics being the lifeblood of the Inquisition, and why the major Ordos have such an influence. 

 

 

Inquisitors don't usually openly have Xenos as Acolytes but there are lots of examples of Radical Inquisitors making deals with Xenos (like Dark Eldar, etc.) or using them as mercenaries.

 

Unbound armies make this an interesting avenue to explore. I've never thought of using Eldar with Inquisition, mitebegud. 

 

 

The only example of an Inquisitor in TDA that I've found is Natius Osrinn. There may be others but I haven't come across them.

 

It's been a wargear option for Inquisitors since the earliest days. Although as I mentioned earlier, Inquisitor would find it easier to just requisition Terminators (Deathwatch, Knights or normal Chapter), than get their hands on a personal suit. Not to mention TDA is very unsubtle and loud, which rarely suits the work of the Inquisition (aside from the Malleus of course). 

 

 

Inquisitors wear whatever colors they want and it has been said that a group of different Inquisitors can make for a very colorful group.

 

More to the point, Inquisitors rarely travel in full view. They most commonly disguise themselves as Rogue Traders, merchant captains and other free-roaming agents of the Imperium as a reliable cover. So yeah, go nuts with conversions, undercover is the standard practise. 

 

 

Inquisitors in Power Armor are slightly slower in reaction and mobility than Space Marines.

 

It's a bit more than 'slightly'. Marines are whip-fast compared to normal humans. The rules don't really convey the difference, but I3 versus I4 is worlds apart. Inquisitors would probably make up for it with bionics and combat drugs though, if necessary (a lot of Inquisitors leave the grunt work of fighting to military forces, only the most militant would actually fight). 

[Heru]

 

 

The only example of an Inquisitor in TDA that I've found is Natius Osrinn. There may be others but I haven't come across them.

Not to mention TDA is very unsubtle and loud, which rarely suits the work of the Inquisition (aside from the Malleus of course).

Inquisitors wear whatever colors they want and it has been said that a group of different Inquisitors can make for a very colorful group.

More to the point, Inquisitors rarely travel in full view. They most commonly disguise themselves as Rogue Traders, merchant captains and other free-roaming agents of the Imperium as a reliable cover. So yeah, go nuts with conversions, undercover is the standard practise.

 

 

Not every Inquisitor is going to be like Ravenor or Eisenhorn, some make a very big deal about being noticed. Some are bombastic, loud and proud. Look at Karamazov and his giant walking chair for example. Inquisitors are as varied as grains of sand.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Not every Inquisitor is going to be like Ravenor or Eisenhorn, some make a very big deal about being noticed. Some are bombastic, loud and proud. Look at Karamazov and his giant walking chair for example. Inquisitors are as varied as grains of sand. 

True, and I did already point that out. But if you consider that 90% of the work of the Inquisition is planning and investigation, and about 10% actual combat, you can see why most Inquisitors are going to go for the subtle approach. After all, the entire point of the Inquisition is that it can freely operate inside the Imperium, and its effectiveness is magnifed by fear of its presence, rather than obvious signs. Karamasov is considered a bit of a lunatic even by his fellow Hereticus brethren. Not many people just commander what looks suspiciously like either a Legio Cybernetica robot or partial Astartes Dreadnought as their personal ride. 

 

But yeah, Malleus and Hereticus do like putting on a show sometimes, especially if they have to go up against influential public figures. Not to mention sometimes it helps to inspire local Imperial forces with some martial prowess. Nothing like an Inquisitor slapping down traitors with a force hammer on the front lines to send a clear message to the troops. 

[Kilofix]

Minor note but I found another example of an Inquisitor in TDA from We are One by John French.

[DinoDoc]

Minor note but I found another example of an Inquisitor in TDA from We are One by John French.

I've no idea why this was so hard for you guys to find but Hector Rex was in Terminator Armour before FW retconned it in a rules update.

 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I've no idea why this was so hard for you guys to find but Hector Rex was in Terminator Armour before FW retconned it in a rules update.

 

Hector Rex is...unusual. Also, his rules are so bad we can't find a use for him most of the time. 

[Kilofix]

 

 

I've no idea why this was so hard for you guys to find but Hector Rex was in Terminator Armour before FW retconned it in a rules update.

 

Hector Rex is...unusual. Also, his rules are so bad we can't find a use for him most of the time. 

 

One thing about Hector is that he is Scoring. Which can lead to some interesting combos.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

One thing about Hector is that he is Scoring. Which can lead to some interesting combos.

 

Meh, he's not Troops, so that's irrelevant in 7th. Everything can score now.