Darktemplar10 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Hey guys I have a company champion model for the PA footslogger banner command. I rarely see him used. I've never used him hence keeping points low and just keeping everyone with bolters. My question is I guess does anyone use this guy. Drop pod melee command squad maybe without banner? Which I'll never use I was thinking about converting him into a Liberian instead for more prescience Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Keep him for fluff if nothing else. He's also good for taking challenges so that your apothecary doesn't get pasted by that sergeant with a power fist, though it could be said that if you let a foot command squad get charged then there's not much you can do about it at that point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktemplar10 Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Fluff is the only reasons he's stayed around this long haha hence never seeing battle Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Give him and all his friends a plasma gun, then you don't have to worry about how good they are in CC :P That's how I currently use them ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFisty Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I agree with Stobz. I actually use mine as a melta suicide squad in a drop pod. I give all five of them melta-guns and look for armor or monstrous creatures and that works well for me. I hope that helps. McFisty Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Keep him for fluff if nothing else. He's also good for taking challenges so that your apothecary doesn't get pasted by that sergeant with a power fist, though it could be said that if you let a foot command squad get charged then there's not much you can do about it at that point. There is no requirement to accept a challenge, so if the Apothecary is the only character in the unit, your enemy only gets to choose him to not take part in the combat. You lose two basic attacks (because Apothecaries can not have further upgrades), but at least you still keep your Feel No pain (and you might even get to use it more if your squad can kill that enemy power fist guy before he attacks). EDIT : Also, the Company Champion is a 35 point model, and he actually is likely to kill an enemy power fist sergeant who is a 39 point model, base (49 points if he is a Veteran, which he likely will be if he has a power fist). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I've had a champion model for ages...almost decades...but only for the ritual duel if I face wolves (which no longer is in the rulebook) I never let his base touch the tabletop! He's never been worth the points. Now, the Deathwing champion...he's a beast! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 i never use a PA champion since our new dex came out... that I1 sword is simply offensive... In addition vanilla champion costs the same and he can choose wich PW he wants... I like ths RW champion (cheap upgrade) and DW Champion (beast in melee)... I Always use my command squad as a suicide squad of 5 plasma or melta guns in a drop pod... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3637789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktemplar10 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Agreed ... Think I might keep him for ceremonial duels against space wolves :) the Lion was a badass compared to the other primarchs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3643383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I Always use my command squad as a suicide squad of 5 plasma or melta guns in a drop pod... I think thats the main reason why people never play a champion. The sword profile has nothing to do with this. FerociousBeast made a nice statistical comparison showing that the "inferiority" of the champ is situational and that, in most of the case, the champ will do at least as good as a sgt and that in various cases he'll do better. The main reason why we don't play a champ is : - v6 is a shooting game - command squad is our only squad with access to 5 special weapons. - our banner of devastation forces us to make a gunline where champ is useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3644889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I Always use my command squad as a suicide squad of 5 plasma or melta guns in a drop pod... I think thats the main reason why people never play a champion. The sword profile has nothing to do with this. FerociousBeast made a nice statistical comparison showing that the "inferiority" of the champ is situational and that, in most of the case, the champ will do at least as good as a sgt and that in various cases he'll do better. The main reason why we don't play a champ is : - v6 is a shooting game - command squad is our only squad with access to 5 special weapons. - our banner of devastation forces us to make a gunline where champ is useless. FB's Champion thread is a good one, but the Company Command Squad Champion still tends to die. A lot. As to the game now being a shooting game, it simply still isn't. The addition of Overwatch, Hull points, and rules that don't allow units to charge at the top of Turn 1 now make it a shooting game? It doesn't. The game is still ruled by close combat, which is where casualties are piled up, Morale check penalties are therefore piled up, and enemy units can be removed from play without being killed to the man. Units usually having median (Ld 7) or better Leaderships scores, and there being plenty or rules or upgrades that give bonuses or re-rolls to Morale checks, racking up Morale check penalties is still the most consistent method in the game of decimating the enemy. Where this is not the case, the enemy being faced costs more, meaning forces without such rules will outnumber them. Also, models do not benefit from cover saves in close combat, make Morale tests when only losing a close combat and having to test even when not having lost 25% casualties (and having to do so at a penalty), as opposed to the 25% casualties required for a shooting morale check which it still taken at full Ld value in most cases. And then we also have the addition of vehicles, including fast skimmers, able to be hit at the worst on 3's in close combat by even the lowliest WS 2 models (a close combat benefiting rule that is better than before). Then we have the universal Jink rule (an anti-shooting rule) which all skimmers and bikes/jetbikes have, and Night Fight is also more common place (yet another anti-shooting rule). So, exactly how is this the shooting edition? It isn't. The Company Command Squad does have access to five special weapons, but if one is using them as a "suicide squads", meaning you assume they will get one shot off and then get massacred, why wouldn't you run a suicide squad that can take the equivalent of ten special weapons (and at 2 points less per model)? if you are going to run a suicide squad, do it right by using a Company Veterans Squad with two special weapons and eight combi-weapons. They will still get ripped to bits, but not likely be completely killed. As such they will still have the opportunity to do something with their two special weapons because you have been smart enough to position the squad so as to render them among the last casualties taken, and so they may be around to do something more. As to the last bit, I very much beg to differ. The Standard of Devastation "forces" us to only make Greenwing gun-line armies where a Company Champion is useless? Tell that to a unit with 2 base attacks (which you are already effectively paying 25 points for). So, a Greenwing force made up of two Tactical Squads, three Assault Squads, three Company Veterans Squads mostly decked out for close combat, and a Company Command Squad (likewise decked out mostly for close combat, and with a company Champion) with the Standard of Fortitude (that's the one which will be giving nearly every unit in your army Feel No Pain). Then you have a Company Champion with a 3+/6++ save and a 5+ Feel No Pain roll. That makes the Company Champion that much more resilient, but it really is more about everyone in the army getting the benefit o the Standard of Fortitude, not just the Company Champion. Remember that Feel No Pain now works against power/rending weapons, so it is that much better than before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3645319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 So, exactly how is this the shooting edition? It isn't. It's not the simple fact that v6 introduces hull points and overwatch, it's also how it adds itself to v5 rules (like true LoS) and how the codex are built. Now we have more and more shooting weapons with high rates of fire, wether it is the hades autocannon or artefact like the banner of devastation. Look at the nids. They should be a CC army but apart from the trygon, what is not shooting in a standard 1850pts list? No more CC weapon for the tyrant : all goes on the double devourer... And finally... EVEN if v6 is not that a shooting game, my first assertion was correct : who plays a command squad for CC ? We all play them with 5xspecialweapon and/or banner of devastation. It's not only for us : vanilla codex has the same possibilities + making bike command squads and who play them for CC? Nobody. So it's not a problem of sword , it's first of all a problem of squad role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3645500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So, exactly how is this the shooting edition? It isn't. It's not the simple fact that v6 introduces hull points and overwatch, it's also how it adds itself to v5 rules (like true LoS) and how the codex are built.Now we have more and more shooting weapons with high rates of fire, wether it is the hades autocannon or artefact like the banner of devastation. Look at the nids. They should be a CC army but apart from the trygon, what is not shooting in a standard 1850pts list? No more CC weapon for the tyrant : all goes on the double devourer... And finally... EVEN if v6 is not that a shooting game, my first assertion was correct : who plays a command squad for CC ? We all play them with 5xspecialweapon and/or banner of devastation. It's not only for us : vanilla codex has the same possibilities + making bike command squads and who play them for CC? Nobody. So it's not a problem of sword , it's first of all a problem of squad role. So here's an interesting thought, what if they were dataslated with a nice box. (reclusiam can leave)? Would that make it more exciting? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3654415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 If I knew I was playing against a SW player I might toss him in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288795-champ-in-command-squad/#findComment-3654467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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