Why are most (all?) HQ options designed for C&C?

[Rasclomalum]

Apart from psykers, who tend to want to stay out of the fray, the HQ section is decidedly about building something that can break faces. There is the Burning Brand, but other than that the ranged weapons are basically combi-weapons and plasma pistols. I guess they want our HQ options to charge at each other instead of sitting behind cover with a lascannon taking BS5 potshots, but it still seems like something of an oddity that a Chaos Lord can't duke it out with a heavy bolter should he wish to do so.

 

While we're at it, Chaos HQ options can only take one ranged weapon, not two and go plasma guns akimbo, am I right? A gunslinger with two plasma pistols would be fun to try, hilariously bad as it may be. 

 

 

 

[HsojVvad]

Maybe it's fluffy for CSM HQ's to be in close combat instead of the coward way of shooting. Just getting into CSM myself, but that is what I get so far. Let the minions do the grunt work of shooting and weaking the enemy, and the big baddy comes in and lops everyones head. :D

[the jeske]

technicly 2 of our non specials are made to buff and sorcs aren't that awesome for melee either [and divination CS sorc are buff masters] , the problem is that our buff dudes are bad.

[Wayniac]

I figure it's a holdover from the previous editions that were assault-friendly.  The guts of the rules and even a lot of options haven't been modified all that much since 3rd edition, so you have a lot of situations where a model is meant for combat, but combat is inferior to shooting now.

[King Jackal]

Yeah, I miss the Kaigun

[Beachymike123]

As jeske has said 2 of our hqs are more for buffs but Lords are certainly melee masters. This may be due them being the epitome of the army than anything else i'd say. In tau armies, as an example and if iirc, the commander takes a lot of firepower weaponry. It may also be just a snapshot in time, in DOW2 Davian Thule has a heavy bolter towards the beginning of the game. I personally think of csms as being like a spear, with the lord as the tip so should be armed as such.

[Scribe]

One of the central tenants of both lines is that Chaos means smashing. If Tau are supposed to be shooting, CSM (and Warriors of Chaos) should be smashing face.

[NoLifeKing]

Of Course we favor CC, where else could we best enjoy the warfare? Being there admits your enemy seeing the fear in their eyes and feeling the fresh blood splatter on your face as you tear the heads from guardsmen or curbstomping loyalists. That is where the thrill of battle is strongest and the thirst for blood can be sated.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

On answer to the plasma pistol question I believe you can go twin plasma pistol on any model with access to the armoury (this includes champs) you just swap one weapon for each individual pistol.

[incinerator950]

CSM has been defined for a while as a mid to close range army.  It can do both, but our HQs have always primarily just been CCW because of our relics, power weapons, and demonic gifts and toys as some form of sword, axe, spear, or mace/hammer.

No one wants to make a super doom siren, Kai Gun, or miniaturized phlegm cannon for us, so we're stuck this way. 

[Trevak Dal]

I think because 40k is based heavily off of Warhammer Fantasy, and Close Combat is the thing there.

 

So naturally, all squad leaders have +1 or more Weapon skill.

 

We have a lot of "golly gee?" rules and things going on that are plainly relics that have been grandfathered in.

 

[Trevak Dal]

There's a lot of things that the Group has been discussing here recently about how to make the game better.  I think you should be able to assault after running (getting a hammer of wrath attack even).  

[M@l!ce]

On answer to the plasma pistol question I believe you can go twin plasma pistol on any model with access to the armoury (this includes champs) you just swap one weapon for each individual pistol.

The different wording from the melee options begs to differ on that one.  Were it a case of them saying "can replace their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following", I'd be inclined to agree.

 

Much the same way the Chaos Artefacts allow you to replace one weapon.  But if it doesn't replace a weapon, such as the Dimensional Key, you may take more than one.  Since nothing says you can't take multiple non-weapon artefacts.

[Xenith]

The way of Space Marines is that their Captains lead from the front, and are in the thick of the action.

 

Being functionally immortal in human terms, their experience and combat prowess is a valued asset, and why would you waste that at the back when a Captain can fight in melee and still command an army.

 

This carries over to the Chaos Space Marines, except they have a love for violence that means they want to get up close and personal anyway.

[King Jackal]

Do you think that is a fair statement for all legions and chapters?

All I mean is that I can think of several examples that prefer to do their fighting from afar.

 

I remember reading on here, when 6th was fairly fresh - the idea of buying a 'Daemon Weapon' special rule for HQ melee options. It would be cool if you could buy the same rule for ranged weapons with a slight variation on what it does to the weapon.

[Chiv]

I would love to take a shooty lord, group him with some oblits, perhaps take a daemon-posessed LC/AC/HB at say bs 5. It seems to me that Noise Marine Lords would take sonic weps, but alas even noise lords are cc oriented.

[incinerator950]

Do you think that is a fair statement for all legions and chapters?

All I mean is that I can think of several examples that prefer to do their fighting from afar.

 

I remember reading on here, when 6th was fairly fresh - the idea of buying a 'Daemon Weapon' special rule for HQ melee options. It would be cool if you could buy the same rule for ranged weapons with a slight variation on what it does to the weapon.

 

I almost read this wrong, but you're saying have adaptable morphing Demon Weapons that have ranged variations?

[zyl-]

 

On answer to the plasma pistol question I believe you can go twin plasma pistol on any model with access to the armoury (this includes champs) you just swap one weapon for each individual pistol.

The different wording from the melee options begs to differ on that one.  Were it a case of them saying "can replace their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following", I'd be inclined to agree.

 

Much the same way the Chaos Artefacts allow you to replace one weapon.  But if it doesn't replace a weapon, such as the Dimensional Key, you may take more than one.  Since nothing says you can't take multiple non-weapon artefacts.

I'm not sure you need to swap the mele weapon. You could trade bolter and bolt pistol, yeah?

[incinerator950]

 

 

On answer to the plasma pistol question I believe you can go twin plasma pistol on any model with access to the armoury (this includes champs) you just swap one weapon for each individual pistol.

The different wording from the melee options begs to differ on that one.  Were it a case of them saying "can replace their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following", I'd be inclined to agree.

 

Much the same way the Chaos Artefacts allow you to replace one weapon.  But if it doesn't replace a weapon, such as the Dimensional Key, you may take more than one.  Since nothing says you can't take multiple non-weapon artefacts.

I'm not sure you need to swap the mele weapon. You could trade bolter and bolt pistol, yeah?

 

What about Bolt pistol and Plasma pistol?  Seeing as the wording on the ranged weapon is one of the following, with no specification of which weapon you choose.

[M@l!ce]

 

 

On answer to the plasma pistol question I believe you can go twin plasma pistol on any model with access to the armoury (this includes champs) you just swap one weapon for each individual pistol.

The different wording from the melee options begs to differ on that one.  Were it a case of them saying "can replace their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following", I'd be inclined to agree.

 

Much the same way the Chaos Artefacts allow you to replace one weapon.  But if it doesn't replace a weapon, such as the Dimensional Key, you may take more than one.  Since nothing says you can't take multiple non-weapon artefacts.

I'm not sure you need to swap the mele weapon. You could trade bolter and bolt pistol, yeah?

Right, you can replace either one weapon with one artefact.  Though not sure any of the HQs start with a boltgun, anyway.

 

 

 

 

On answer to the plasma pistol question I believe you can go twin plasma pistol on any model with access to the armoury (this includes champs) you just swap one weapon for each individual pistol.

The different wording from the melee options begs to differ on that one.  Were it a case of them saying "can replace their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following", I'd be inclined to agree.

 

Much the same way the Chaos Artefacts allow you to replace one weapon.  But if it doesn't replace a weapon, such as the Dimensional Key, you may take more than one.  Since nothing says you can't take multiple non-weapon artefacts.

I'm not sure you need to swap the mele weapon. You could trade bolter and bolt pistol, yeah?

 

What about Bolt pistol and Plasma pistol?  Seeing as the wording on the ranged weapon is one of the following, with no specification of which weapon you choose.

Yep, you can have Cypher's token loadout.  So you technically can have two pistols, just not dual plasma.  But since apparently the internet thinks plasma pistols suck, you should only take one anyways.

[incinerator950]

Well, how effective (if at all) is it?

[Kilofix]

But don't forget Sorcs and Daemons can be 'shooty' with Psychic.

[incinerator950]

But don't forget Sorcs and Daemons can be 'shooty' with Psychic.

 

I think the premise is that is a different form of shooty.  We're specifically looking for Dakka lords, something we don't really specialize in do to codex restrictions.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Chaos Lords need to be able to put a hurt on anybody in their warband who thinks they're tough enough to take his place.

[ElectricPaladin]

Honestly, this is kind of the way GW does almost all their factions. Pretty much every faction except the Tau has valuable close combat options for their HQs (and even the Tau can pull put some nasty close combat tricks on their battlesuit commanders). GW has a weird bias around close combat and leadership.