Any Iron Warriors play fluffy lists?

[d3m01iti0n]

Now that my Orks are caught up Im going full steam ahead into my Iron Warriors.  So far I only have 15 Tacs, a TDA Chaos Lord and a Warsmith, but I want to run a gunline siege list.  Im talking Oblits, Forgefiends, tanks, and IG allies with a ton of artillery.  Anybody have experience with this kind of list?  I really dont want to run bog standard Drakes and Cultists, thats not why Im starting the army.  Im not super competetive but I at least want to hold my own and would love some advice.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

That a local tournament at the start of the year.  My Iron Warriors army list for 1650pts was

 

Warpsmith w/Buring brand

3x Terminators with Combi Plasma

10 Chaos Marines (Veteran theme unit), Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Melta, Autocannon, Icon of Vengance, Champion w/Power Axe
10 Chaos Marines (Unit going down path Khorne unit), Bolt Pistol, CCW, Melta, Autocannon, Icon of Vengance, Champion w/Power Axe 

8 Chaos Marines (Breacher theme unit), Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Melta, Icon of Vengance, Champion w/Power Axe

All three units had Rhinos with Extra Armour

 

1 Heldrake

2x 2 Obliterators w/Mark of Nurgle

Vindicator with Daemonic Possessed & Seige Shield

 

Over the weekend I fought 7 games against - Grey Knights, Marines, Orks, Nurgle Chaos, Nurgle Chaos, Nurgle Chaos & orks

The second Nurgle Chaos Marines I was wipe out, while I slaughter the Grey Knights.  Ever other game was really hard fought & all down to single dice roll, ever game being really tactical & great fun.
I know against the third Nurgle army it ended in a draw with 8 Kill points each, all we had left was

Me: Warpsmith, 2x IWs, Obliterator, Heldrake w/1 Hull point & Rhino.  Nurgle: 3x Death Guards, Heldrake w/1 Hull point, Mauler Fiend immobile but recover any hull points from it will not die.  After game we both talk about what we would have done if the game went on & just that way it was a really hard fought draw & a really great game.

I did loss the Vindicator ever game, but it did do it job & it was the first time using the Vindicator - Ferrus Draco in game, so learnt a lot.

 

In my 1500pts list that I will take to Throne of Skulls, I will change the Warpsmith for my Chaos Lord - Narach who in terminator armour (join terminator unit) & has Axe of Blind Fury & Combi Plasma.  Don't have the Vindicator or T5 on the Obliterators, also the squads for the Obliterators are 1, 1 & 2.

 

Throne of Skulls Spet last year I saw another Iron Warriors force that had Warpsmith, few Chaos Marines squads with Rhinos, Chaos Guard allies so they could get the Basilisk & a single Heldrake.

I know I will also be looking to add some Chaos Guards to my Iron Warriors force & have them as a stand alone force.

 

Hope this help out?

IP

 

[Xenith]

If you want to run the gunline list, I would say that a warpsmith is the HQ to have: With the advent of fortifications and Aegis gunlines, etc, dropping one by a point of save in worth the points cost of the smith.

[Nehekhare]

why not use the official iron warriors rules?

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-q9bCVhYUR0w/UzG_q4mfz4I/AAAAAAAAddc/EDikI5rT4sg/s1600/unnamed.png

[Dam13n]

I've started running (at 2000pts):
 
Black Legion Primary:
Chaos Lord - Mark of Nurgle, Terminator Armour, Lightning Claw, Combi-plasma, Blight Grenades, Veterans of the Long War, Gift of Mutation , Warlord
5 Plague Marines - 2 Plasma Guns, Veterans of the Long War
5 Plague Marines - 2 Plasma Guns, Veterans of the Long War
5 Chosen - 5 Meltaguns, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino with Combi-bolter
5 Chosen - 5 Plasma Guns, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino with Combi-bolter
5 Bikers - Mark of Nurgle, 2 Meltaguns, Veterans of the Long War
Predator - Autocannon, Sponson Lascannons
Predator - Autocannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Havok Launcher
Vindicator - Demolisher Cannon, Siege Shield, Combi-bolter
 
Chaos Marines Allies:
Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Burning Brand, Power Sword, Jump Pack, Gift of Mutation
5 Noise Marines - Blastmaster
5 Noise Marines - Blastmaster
3 Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle
 
It's a really adaptable list, able to cope with most things, thankfully we don't have many flyers in my local meta, so AA isn't an issue currently.

Though I'll swap in an ADL for the Dakka-pred should my opponent want to throw a flyer into the mix. 

There's no Heldrake, so that issue doesn't raise it's ugly head.
From a fluff perspective - every Mark/Cult is more representative of Bionic Enhancement than an actual dedication to a particular Chaos God.
 
So, Iron Warrior fluffiness:
- "Heavy" Armour - Check (Preds, Vindi)
- Big Nasty Guns - Check (Oblits, Vindi)
- Experimental Weapons - Check (Blastmasters, Burning Brand)
- Bunker-busters - Check (Melta-chosen, Oblits, Vindi)
- Trench-clearers - Check (Blastmasters, Burning Brand)
- Not-so-Forlorn Hope - Check (Plague Marines)
- Counter-assault - Check (Plasma-chosen, Plague Marines)
- No weak mortals - Check (No Cultists)
 
See this for how they've performed on the table.

[incinerator950]

Sounds more like Black Legion if you ask me.  Nice batrep though. 

[Dam13n]

Black Legion... hmmm...

 

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r358/MatthewDaunt/IMG_0147.jpg

 

Something unpleasant wishes to dispute that slur... Oh, and if he's too busy...

 

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r358/MatthewDaunt/IronWarriorTowerofSkulls.jpg

 

;)

[incinerator950]

I think we disputed that fluffyness is a lost gem, and about the only thing making a difference is a paint job and what you say. 

That being said, just because it's heavier and using siegecraft doesn't make it 100% Iron Warriors.  The Black Legion also has Siege specialists, and because of their adapting tactics and Iron Warrior additions, it's quite easy to call the same list.  Plus you're using BL rules ;)

That being said you make me want to play Armored Core, so I'm going to go cry in my corner again.

[Dam13n]

I like to make the most of the rules available to me.

 

The Black Legion book gives me Chosen as Troops, which I like, at the cost of VotLW - which I should be taking on Iron Warriors anyway for the most part.

 

As soon as an Iron Warriors supplement comes out, you bet I'll use it.  But until then - I'll take what I can get.

[Wayniac]

why not use the official iron warriors rules?

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-q9bCVhYUR0w/UzG_q4mfz4I/AAAAAAAAddc/EDikI5rT4sg/s1600/unnamed.png

I wasn't aware you could use 30k rules for 40k :-/

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

why not use the official iron warriors rules?

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-q9bCVhYUR0w/UzG_q4mfz4I/AAAAAAAAddc/EDikI5rT4sg/s1600/unnamed.png

I wasn't aware you could use 30k rules for 40k :-/

You can't. There's also the fact that these rules represent the Iron Warriors when they were a Legion at the beginning of the Heresy. And one of the character's is apparently a Loyalist. :P

[Wayniac]

I know I was being sarcastic ;)

[Nehekhare]

oh, that old discussion...

 

sorry kol, but your information is wrong and misleading.

 

yes, it is absolutely legit to use the (30k) legiones astartes army list in games against 40k coices as per official designer's notes:

 

 

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in
games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?
A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all
designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and
focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the
Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.
Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against
your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with
Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that
you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For
example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in
Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing
within their own sphere.)
In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be
used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of
Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points
or greater.
Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the
Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use
those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger
squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using
the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers
available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.

 

horus heresy is a supplement for the warhammer 40k wargame and is in no way less fit to use in games than, say, codex: tau.

 

plus, the Iron warriors legion rules are the ONLY official legion rules at this time - since neither codex: CSM, nor any supplement to it contain such a thing (there are no legions in 40k, only warbands), there simply is no other (official) way to represent IW on the table but by the rules presented in HH3.

 

which means in consequence that armies built from C:CSM are not iron warrior armies. in this codex, the iron warriors legion is a little bit of background fluff and a paint scheme and nothing more. These armies do NOT adaequately respresent chaos legions, nor are they meant to. C:CSM allows you to play chaos warbands of the 41st mill, which will seldomly contain chaos space marines at all, and if they do, those individuals will propably have been born long after the heresy, were not created of original traitor legion geneseed and have no knowledge of legion tactics (otherwise, they would have rules to represent this). Remember that "veterans of the long war" does not equal legion membership (e.g. huron), just battlefield experience. Only special characters and maybe daemon princes may have been members of the original and once proud legions. For surviving remnants of the true legions, you should use the rules officially meant to represent them, not C:CSM.

 

and, if I may say so, this is good reason to accept that GW (or FW or any other sub-section of GW) will never release legion rules other than these. 

 

nice minis btw.

[Kol Saresk]

Two problems.

 

1.) People accepting a game with an HH army. Typically, you're lucky if Forgeworld is allowed. Playing HH rules gets an extra degree of segregation.

 

2.) Competitive players and WAAC players aren't always fond of HH armies. The former because it is not allowed in most tournaments(Warhammer World actually segregates it into its own division last I heard) so when they are practicing, it isn't practical to practice against an army they will not face. And the latter just thinks its pay to win because it has a chance of beating their internet cheese list.

[Kol Saresk]

Also, there is still the fact the Legion lists =/= CSM.

[Nehekhare]

yes, kol: CSM are not legions. Iron warriors are a legion, so CSM are not iron warriors. by extension: if you use C:CSM for your NL, those aren't night lords, because night lords have rules, and those are not in C:CSM, but in HH2.

 

what people accept is their problem. FACT is: FW is official GW material for 40k whether anybody likes it or not.

 

I think OP explicitly said he didn't care about what you call "WAAC", and by my experience the list is good enough to "hold it's own" as he wanted it to.

[Kol Saresk]

I'm not sure where you are going with the whole CSM thing. Codex Chaos Space Marines is supposed to represent all the various forces of the Chaos Space Marines as they appear in 40K.

 

The FW HH serious focuses on all 18 Legions as they appear leading up to and into the Heresy. Book 3: Extinction specifically represents the Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors and Raven Guard as they appear in the aftermath of Istvaan V, Battle of Paramar and the Battle of Phall. That's why there units like a Loyalist Warsmith character.

 

It is not meant to represent the Iron Warriors as they are in 40K when they have become corrupted by Chaos.

[Warsmith Aznable]

If you want to run the gunline list, I would say that a warpsmith is the HQ to have: With the advent of fortifications and Aegis gunlines, etc, dropping one by a point of save in worth the points cost of the smith.

 

Unless I've missed an update, the codex specifically states you can't use Shatter Defences on fortifications purchased as part of the opponent's army list.

[the jeske]

IG primary , 2 medusas ,1 squadron of basilisks . 1x40 blob of IG . CS ally div sorc , 10 cultists , 5dreads in a formation . landing pad.

 

Perfect IW list , has siege[medusas+basilisks] has gunline[those dreads and IG aren't going anywhere] and has IW[the CS sorc] .

[M@l!ce]

 

 

If you want to run the gunline list, I would say that a warpsmith is the HQ to have: With the advent of fortifications and Aegis gunlines, etc, dropping one by a point of save in worth the points cost of the smith.

Unless I've missed an update, the codex specifically states you can't use Shatter Defences on fortifications purchased as part of the opponent's army list.

I could be wrong, but I assumed by the post that they were suggesting the OP use one to man their own fortifications, as the BS5 would be useful for any gun emplacements they could have. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I like to have at least a smidge of faith in the reading comprehension of my fellow players. :P

 

Also, nice to see this thread is going as well as expected of one which has "Fluffy" in the title. xD

[incinerator950]

yes, kol: CSM are not legions. Iron warriors are a legion, so CSM are not iron warriors. by extension: if you use C:CSM for your NL, those aren't night lords, because night lords have rules, and those are not in C:CSM, but in HH2.

 

what people accept is their problem. FACT is: FW is official GW material for 40k whether anybody likes it or not.

 

I think OP explicitly said he didn't care about what you call "WAAC", and by my experience the list is good enough to "hold it's own" as he wanted it to.

 

Officially a 40k supplement much like Squats or Genestealer Cults are official armies (30k Legions).  Also, it's an even bigger fact that the competition, player or tourney, has to allow you to bring FW, regardless if there is a FAQ statement saying it's accepted.

[Dam13n]

IG primary , 2 medusas ,1 squadron of basilisks . 1x40 blob of IG . CS ally div sorc , 10 cultists , 5dreads in a formation . landing pad.

 

Perfect IW list , has siege[medusas+basilisks] has gunline[those dreads and IG aren't going anywhere] and has IW[the CS sorc] .

 

And yet this list has only 1 actual Chaos Marine in it, and he's a Psyker.  Sigh.

 

(and I presume you mean something like 2x40 blobs of Guardsmen, otherwise you lack the 2 troop minimum.)

 

Not what I envisage when I think about Iron Warriors.  Maybe an Auxillary detachment, but not actual Iron Warriors.

 

Still, that's the sort of list that the tournament meta will throw up.

[hopkins]

will be interesting to see what the new IG codex has, as i'd like to include an allied artillery detachment with my tin men, with something like

 

CCS with master of ordanance

minimum amount of troops (what is this  in the current 'dex out of interest?)

basilisks and/or medusas

[Xenith]

 

 

If you want to run the gunline list, I would say that a warpsmith is the HQ to have: With the advent of fortifications and Aegis gunlines, etc, dropping one by a point of save in worth the points cost of the smith.

 

Unless I've missed an update, the codex specifically states you can't use Shatter Defences on fortifications purchased as part of the opponent's army list.

 

 

Oh well, sucks to be Chaos.

 

Why would Warpsmith Dave waste his preliminary bombardment on that clump of trees with no one in it, rather than that building full of the enemy.

 

Either way, I played against guard recently, and their go to ground nonsense was enough to make me want to bring something to remove a little cover. Or something that ignores cover, like a whirlwind, Thunderfire cannon or dragonfire bolts.

[the jeske]

 

 

And yet this list has only 1 actual Chaos Marine in it, and he's a Psyker.  Sigh.

 

(and I presume you mean something like 2x40 blobs of Guardsmen, otherwise you lack the 2 troop minimum.)

 

Not what I envisage when I think about Iron Warriors.  Maybe an Auxillary detachment, but not actual Iron Warriors.

 

Still, that's the sort of list that the tournament meta will throw up.

 

2x20. I don't think it is a tournament list very slow and normal marines would have had better synergy with IG. The question asked was about a siege gunline that is IW. . IT has a lot of gunline and siege elements and it can be called IW , because it takes stuff from chaos codex. In Storm of Iron IW were using a whole regiment IG in their first probe attack.