Any Iron Warriors play fluffy lists?

[Iron_Within]

Iron Warriors armies are not automatically "gun lines", or even artillery, that is only one aspect to their tactics.

[Trevak Dal]

I'm not sure where you are going with the whole CSM thing. Codex Chaos Space Marines is supposed to represent all the various forces of the Chaos Space Marines as they appear in 40K.

 

The FW HH serious focuses on all 18 Legions as they appear leading up to and into the Heresy. Book 3: Extinction specifically represents the Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors and Raven Guard as they appear in the aftermath of Istvaan V, Battle of Paramar and the Battle of Phall. That's why there units like a Loyalist Warsmith character.

 

It is not meant to represent the Iron Warriors as they are in 40K when they have become corrupted by Chaos.

 

Kol, I think we all can admit that the Chaos Space Marine codex sucks :cuss if you aren't into Heldrakes, Cultists, Nurgle and Slaanesh.  We are the Tyranids of Space Marines, why do you begrudge someone for wanting to leave this travesty in the waste basket?

[brad2240]

"IG primary, 2 medusas, 1 squadron of basilisks, 1x40 blob of IG, CS ally div sorc, 10 cultists, 5 dreads in a formation, landing pad."

 

 

There is nothing fluffy about that list. It does nothing to represent Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines on the table top. Even the one and only marine is using a named artifact that, in the fluff, belongs to another army.

 

You might as well paint up some Tau in silver and gold and call them Iron Warriors.

 

It breaks my heart that CSM has come to this, when lists that have one single marine in them are being put forth as "fluffy."  

[Nehekhare]

It is not meant to represent the Iron Warriors as they are in 40K when they have become corrupted by Chaos.

 

there is no iron warriors legion in 40k. C:CSM does not represent legions. ergo: If you want a fluffy IW list, HH3 is the only official way to do it. simple as that.

 

Officially a 40k supplement much like Squats or Genestealer Cults are official armies (30k Legions).  Also, it's an even bigger fact that the competition, player or tourney, has to allow you to bring FW, regardless if there is a FAQ statement saying it's accepted.

 

 I don't think squats or genestealer cults have official rules besides some snippets of fluff, so in fact they may have even MORE official coverage than the legions in C:CSM - unlike legions in HH. same goes for adeptus mechanicus forces, btw.

 

again, what people allow in their private tourneys or personal narratives or what grudges they hold against certain sub-sections of GW is entirely their own problem and in no way related to what rules are official (or fluffy). fact.

 

OP asked for a fluffy IW list - there is only one official rule set for this in the entirety of 40k. the end.

[Wayniac]

"IG primary, 2 medusas, 1 squadron of basilisks, 1x40 blob of IG, CS ally div sorc, 10 cultists, 5 dreads in a formation, landing pad."

 

 

There is nothing fluffy about that list. It does nothing to represent Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines on the table top. Even the one and only marine is using a named artifact that, in the fluff, belongs to another army.

 

You might as well paint up some Tau in silver and gold and call them Iron Warriors.

 

It breaks my heart that CSM has come to this, when lists that have one single marine in them are being put forth as "fluffy."  

 

Amen.  It's a shame to see things like this or field a "Crimson Slaughter" army that's all Plague Marines with MoN Lord on a Bike and 3x Heldrakes, that has nothing to do with it other than the book.  It's really digusting to see how bad Chaos is, at least in the meta.  Maybe that was the plan all along - get Chaos players to go play 30k instead where we at least have legions and an identity, because right now unless you're playing Nurgle or maybe Slaanesh and get turned on by the Helturkey, you're "doing it wrong".

[brad2240]

@Nehekhare: The OP did not ask for an Iron Warriors LEGION list. Since Oblits and Fiends were mentioned, he clearly wants the IW as they stand in 40k. And warbands of IW are fielded using C:CSM just as they are with any other 40k Chaos marines. The OP can choose units he thinks makes a fluffy list and it seems like he already knows what he wants.

 

Telling him to buy more rulebooks, that may or not be allowed where he plays, to make an army he isn't even asking about, is unhelpful. And your insistence that IW don't exist in 40k comes across as very argumentative and somewhat insulting to those of us who have 40k Iron Warrior armies, whether you mean it to or not.

[minigun762]

Let's stay on topic please.

This isn't the space to discuss the legality of 30k vs 40k armies or to wax poetic on the failure of certain codicies.

[M@l!ce]

And now that that's hopefully over with, d3m01ti0n, your best bet would be to go with the following loadouts and options for both a fluffy and somewhat competitive list.

 

Chaos Lord for the HQ is pretty much a given.  I don't know if you intend to take any marks or not, but in the event that you do, his potential to unlock certain cult units as troops is pretty handy, not to mention he is the second best HQ choice in the army.  The first being flying Daemon Princes.  Equip him however you like, but a Chainfist and Lightning Claw is a good non-artefact loadout for a Terminator armoured Lord, like you plan on having anyway.  Daemon Weapons are nice and all, but are better on Princes.

 

Your Warpmisth is decent and fluffy for a few things.  You should grab yourself a Fortification (very fluff) with some sort of gun emplacement for him to man.  Keep him with Obliterators as a bodyguard, as he'll be opped wide open if he's on his lonesome back there.

 

For your CSM units, I recommend squads of up to ten in a rhino, as mechanised assaults are very fluff for IW.  Ensure they take dual special weapons of the same type, and don't fall into the trap of including heavy weapons.  Dual plasma is good for rapid fire goodness, if you're not afraid of gets hot, while dual melta has it's uses, especially if that Rhino has got you into high threat range.  Even with gunlines, you want to be able to move somewhat to get near objectives, which is why I don't recommend the heavy weapons.  Equip your champions as you see fit, but power weapons are handy since they are going to want to kick the face of enemy characters every time they clap eyes on them.

 

Elites could be a mix of Termicide squads and Chosen MSUs with 5 special weapons.  For the Chosen, take 5 of the same Assault special weapon.  That way, when it comes to assaulting, they are able to do so as well as fire in the same turn.  Stick them in Rhino, as you'll need it for getting in range with those assault weapons.

 

Terminators do well with combi-plasma and power weapons, but if you would rather not have to do the choppy work, combi-meltas and power axes, or power mauls, with at least one low init weapon if you have the majority of them with at init weapons.  One of these squads should have your Lord in it.

 

Fast Attack has decent options in it, but if you want to avoid the turkey, then you can probaly get by using spawn (maybe cyber them up, if you want fluffy), Bikers (not very fluff, but heck, maybe they ride through the breaches to sow chaos behind the battlements), or Raptors at MSU with two meltas, or flamers per squad.  Suicidal jump troops for jumping over the battlements and burning the enemy to cinders.

 

And now the favourite part for any IW.  Heavy Support.  You want Obliterators and I can't say I blame you.  It's said on "the internet" that they are useless without MoN.  If you want to survive a bit longer with them, stick hat on them.  If not, run them naked for a few games and see how it goes.

 

Then just take Vindicators.  Forge and Maulerfiends are okay, but only if you take multiples.  If you insist on taking them, then pretty much most of the things I have recommended and hat you already want can be found in the recent CSM Attack Force, so least you can get what you want with a slight price shave.

[Iron_Within]

 

It is not meant to represent the Iron Warriors as they are in 40K when they have become corrupted by Chaos.

 

there is no iron warriors legion in 40k. C:CSM does not represent legions. ergo: If you want a fluffy IW list, HH3 is the only official way to do it. simple as that.

Wrong, assuming that Iron Warriors Legion no longer exists is a fallacy like the Word Bearers. They do, they have changed beyond the 30k true, they have been corrupted by Chaos, they have splintered to varying degrees, but the Legion still exists, none more so than the Words Bearers IMO and coming in second the Iron Warriors.

 

The reason why I say this is because there was no Skalathrax, no Rubric, no death of a Primarch to splinter it, 10k years in the warp has changed them, the seclusion of their Primarch has caused rivalries to spill out into inter Legion war (but with the Iron WArriors there was always backstabbing) and, generally Warsmiths operate with autonomy due to the fact Perturabo never left a second in command. But be sure; when Perturabo finishes his latest toy titan and wants to wreck something the Legion answers, bickering, look at the machine plague he unleashed. Look at the fact that the Iron Warriors have their own daemonworld Medrengard, that's the Legions home.

What has broken down is the command structure to the upper echelons (Perty having no more interest in it other than everyone doing as he says when he wants to do something), the same resources the crusading legion had; they don't get resupply from Mars, they cannot simply recreate a Legion Glaive, they get supplies from Daemonforges and Medrengard and what they can take from the Imperium. 

 

So, finally onto the point of this topic, a 40k Iron Warriors legion army would function very differently from a 30k army, simply because of the command structure, autonomy and resources. That means Helldrakes, that means Maulerfiends and Hellbrutes, because those are the resources available. It means supplementing forlorn hope with whatever quivering mass of flesh they can, from expendable human chattel to crazed spawn. The average Iron Warrior is a Demi-God in his eyes, above all except the choicest, most rewarding battles. There has always been an arrogance to the Iron Warriors, not like the Emperors Children, but it's there. But in that we come full circle. 10k years of hate, war, bloodshed and the laughter of Dark Gods have changed the Iron Warriors, but that's one thing that hasn't changed, they are Iron Warriors; they're warcry even in the depths of hell is "Iron Within! Iron Without!", they still chant the unbreakable litany even if they are committing blood rites to Khorne or replacing limbs withered to vestigial tentacles by Tzeentch's dubious blessings. If they have the option of choosing a symphony of shot and shell and charging headlong like loons, its the shot and shell every time.

 

The Iron Warriors grind their enemies to dust and gut the ones that remain standing, that's true for the Prideful Slaanesh Marine, the Khornate Warriors with weapon cybernetic attachments or the rusting, corroded thing trapped inside a body that's more machine than man. No matter how far into the darkness you fall, you are still one of the Legion.

 

Even more onto topic and covering in a little more detail. The army I run is:

 

Belakor

Mace Prince with Wings (tzeentch)

2 units of Marines with plasma and rhinos with havoc Launchers

2 units of Cultists

3 MoN Spawn

2 Helldrakes with Baleflamer

2 Maulerfiends, 1 with tendrils

2 MoN Obliterators

 

Now this isn't an absolute fluff list, but as I alluded to earlier, it's what you make it. In this instance this is the storm force of a wider campaign, they are their to seize ground and keep it, hence the distinctly aggressive tone to the army. As far as the Iron Warriors are concerned everyone except the Marines are completely expendable and that's how I play it. The Marines in this army are the prideful glory hunters, they aren't getting out of their Rhino unless it's worth their time, anything not worth it is done by lesser creatures, so they seize the ground most useful, they are the ones the take the relic while the spawn, fiends and princes cover them. 

[Wayniac]

An idea for spawn, maybe some kind of mechanized thing?  like a tracked body with a CSM torso (and maybe some tendrils like the Warpsmith has)?  Fluffwise they could be severely wounded CSMs basically scavenged and juryrigged into some kind of suicide creature.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

I'm not sure where you are going with the whole CSM thing. Codex Chaos Space Marines is supposed to represent all the various forces of the Chaos Space Marines as they appear in 40K.

 

The FW HH serious focuses on all 18 Legions as they appear leading up to and into the Heresy. Book 3: Extinction specifically represents the Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors and Raven Guard as they appear in the aftermath of Istvaan V, Battle of Paramar and the Battle of Phall. That's why there units like a Loyalist Warsmith character.

 

It is not meant to represent the Iron Warriors as they are in 40K when they have become corrupted by Chaos.

Kol, I think we all can admit that the Chaos Space Marine codex sucks :cuss if you aren't into Heldrakes, Cultists, Nurgle and Slaanesh. We are the Tyranids of Space Marines, why do you begrudge someone for wanting to leave this travesty in the waste basket?

Hence the use of the word "supposed". Because that is what it is supposed to do. I don't recall saying it succeeded.

 

EDIT: OP, there are some suggestions here. Go with the one that strikes you the most fluffy and build from that.

[Warsmith Aznable]

"IG primary, 2 medusas, 1 squadron of basilisks, 1x40 blob of IG, CS ally div sorc, 10 cultists, 5 dreads in a formation, landing pad."

 

 

There is nothing fluffy about that list. It does nothing to represent Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines on the table top. Even the one and only marine is using a named artifact that, in the fluff, belongs to another army.

 

You might as well paint up some Tau in silver and gold and call them Iron Warriors.

 

It breaks my heart that CSM has come to this, when lists that have one single marine in them are being put forth as "fluffy."  

 

Well, maybe not. I wasn't particularly fond of it all, but in Siege of Castellax that was the sort of thing they were doing, sans the Dreadnought blob. Making a fluffy list out of that story could look like one CSM as the HQ and everybody else being some poor bastard chained to an aegis line or artillery piece. So yeah, that could work, I think.

[Brother Heinrich]

If It don't have Vindicators it aint fluffy. Siege Specialists everyone, SIEGE SPECIALISTS.

[d3m01iti0n]

And now that that's hopefully over with, d3m01ti0n, your best bet would be to go with the following loadouts and options for both a fluffy and somewhat competitive list.

 

Chaos Lord for the HQ is pretty much a given.  I don't know if you intend to take any marks or not, but in the event that you do, his potential to unlock certain cult units as troops is pretty handy, not to mention he is the second best HQ choice in the army.  The first being flying Daemon Princes.  Equip him however you like, but a Chainfist and Lightning Claw is a good non-artefact loadout for a Terminator armoured Lord, like you plan on having anyway.  Daemon Weapons are nice and all, but are better on Princes.

 

Your Warpmisth is decent and fluffy for a few things.  You should grab yourself a Fortification (very fluff) with some sort of gun emplacement for him to man.  Keep him with Obliterators as a bodyguard, as he'll be opped wide open if he's on his lonesome back there.

 

For your CSM units, I recommend squads of up to ten in a rhino, as mechanised assaults are very fluff for IW.  Ensure they take dual special weapons of the same type, and don't fall into the trap of including heavy weapons.  Dual plasma is good for rapid fire goodness, if you're not afraid of gets hot, while dual melta has it's uses, especially if that Rhino has got you into high threat range.  Even with gunlines, you want to be able to move somewhat to get near objectives, which is why I don't recommend the heavy weapons.  Equip your champions as you see fit, but power weapons are handy since they are going to want to kick the face of enemy characters every time they clap eyes on them.

 

Elites could be a mix of Termicide squads and Chosen MSUs with 5 special weapons.  For the Chosen, take 5 of the same Assault special weapon.  That way, when it comes to assaulting, they are able to do so as well as fire in the same turn.  Stick them in Rhino, as you'll need it for getting in range with those assault weapons.

 

Terminators do well with combi-plasma and power weapons, but if you would rather not have to do the choppy work, combi-meltas and power axes, or power mauls, with at least one low init weapon if you have the majority of them with at init weapons.  One of these squads should have your Lord in it.

 

Fast Attack has decent options in it, but if you want to avoid the turkey, then you can probaly get by using spawn (maybe cyber them up, if you want fluffy), Bikers (not very fluff, but heck, maybe they ride through the breaches to sow chaos behind the battlements), or Raptors at MSU with two meltas, or flamers per squad.  Suicidal jump troops for jumping over the battlements and burning the enemy to cinders.

 

And now the favourite part for any IW.  Heavy Support.  You want Obliterators and I can't say I blame you.  It's said on "the internet" that they are useless without MoN.  If you want to survive a bit longer with them, stick hat on them.  If not, run them naked for a few games and see how it goes.

 

Then just take Vindicators.  Forge and Maulerfiends are okay, but only if you take multiples.  If you insist on taking them, then pretty much most of the things I have recommended and hat you already want can be found in the recent CSM Attack Force, so least you can get what you want with a slight price shave.

 

 

Best post so far.  Im taking this one to heart.  Sorry about the :cuss storm guys :P

[Xenith]

Siege Specialists =/= Only fight sieges. I don't remember reading about any Vindicators in Storm of Iron or The Iron Without. That said, lots of armour is generally fitting, and Vindi's exemplify the big gun philosophy in the absence of actual artillery.

 

My IW force uses a lot of rangefinders cultists.

 

Seeing as IG is the artillery force and SM are the close up shock assault force, think about how your IW would take a breach in a wall once it opens, and then pick hose units.

 

Berzerkers, terminators, Boarding marines (count as plague marines) Wall of tanks to advance behind, teleport some Hellbrutes into the breach? Why not.

[Nehekhare]

 

Wrong, assuming that Iron Warriors Legion no longer exists is a fallacy

 

 

sorry, to be perfectly clear: I meant ruleswise. The legion exists, just no rules for it.

 

using C:CSM to portray an original traitor legion is only just as viable as codex: space marines or codex: tau.

[Hezirah]

In Storm of Iron, iron warriors used "waves of vindicator tanks" (pg. 385).

They also used "forty two screaming dreadnaughts" alongside them. Murderpack would do fine for Iron Warriors.

[Iron_Within]

 

Wrong, assuming that Iron Warriors Legion no longer exists is a fallacy

 

 

sorry, to be perfectly clear: I meant ruleswise. The legion exists, just no rules for it.

 

using C:CSM to portray an original traitor legion is only just as viable as codex: space marines or codex: tau.

 

Ah that makes more sense. I shed manly tears for my inability to field a decent 40k Iron Warrior army it's true.

 

Though, once Extinction is properly out one can have a closer look at what the IW were like to see what they could be like in 40k. E.g. Breacher squads, Special weapons like Volkite. Though how on earth one represents the abilities of the Iron warriors Storm of fire charge I don't know (they can charge after rapid firing, albeit disordered).

 

I think plenty of armour is a good way to go on it and relying on threat overload to win the day.

[Xenith]

In Storm of Iron, iron warriors used "waves of vindicator tanks" (pg. 385).

Good catch. I seem to remember there is a lot more mention of Daemonic artillery and such, probably best represented through Guard.

However it has worked out, a fluffy 40k Chaos Army is probably best represented through Guard Primary with CSM allies, if you want the feel for them on a large battlefield.

C:CSM works for when you want smaller engagements, boarding actions and such.

Such a shame. The Legions are not dead, as GW keeps mentioning them in everything they put out, namely the Hellbrute Dataslate (the legions do this.../ when the legions fight together... etc). They just need to make the basic chaos marine better.

IW: Go with 3.5 ed logic, even though any build is fluffy. Hoards of guns, backed up by devastating assaults. 2 vindis, land raider, 2x rhino borne CSM units.

[Kol Saresk]

That is never what they meant by "the Legions are dead". It is figurative rather than literal. But that is a separate discussion.

[Nehekhare]

Though, once Extinction is properly out one can have a closer look at what the IW were like to see what they could be like in 40k. E.g. Breacher squads, Special weapons like Volkite. Though how on earth one represents the abilities of the Iron warriors Storm of fire charge I don't know (they can charge after rapid firing, albeit disordered).

Why buy FW rules but not play them? That's my point: they are perfectly fair and legal from GWs point of view, so much is fact. It's only players that won't allow it out of bias and fear. But to be honest, this is IF-grade masochism. HERE ARE the original legion rules, the convoluted astartes army list and the adeptus mechanicus list WE OURSELVES WANTED for years. And now we won't use them because of ...what? It right there in front of us and there will never be a second chance - they will NOT do it AGAIN as CSM supplements.

 

btw HH3 IW legion rules: at first I expected more, but they are growing on me. the units themselves definately rule, iron havocs are support squads+1 (come with free flak!) and perturabo truely is the beast we deserve. Not sold yet on siege terminators (wish the cyclones were like 40k). With some mechanicum allies (monstrous creature units of castellax to use my fiend models, obliterator-esque myrmidons) and 5 (!) heavy support choices per FOC (like medusa/basilisk squadrons), this will be a blast! ;D

 

Breacher squads strike me more as an IH/IF thing, though.

[Iron_Within]

I didn't mean buying it, I meant looking at it along the lines of this:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/horus-heresy-book-iii-extermination.html

 

I am still strongly tempted to buy it yes though. But here is the thing as well; I like my Maulerfiends. I think they are a brilliant addition to the army. At first I looked at them and was confused by the gorilla robot, but after painting one and thoroughly enjoying it, and enjoying their performance in games (whatever they do it has been interesting), but of me does not want to consign them to the shelf.

 

OTOH however, seeing the IW able to take a plethora of heavy support, storm through any hail of fire and still return fire and charge is interesting.

[hopkins]

Storm Of Iron is essential reading for anyone who wants to play IW in a fluffy manner. Such a cool book!

[Dragonlover]

I can't remember my full list, but I know that I massaged the points of a 2000 point dual Force Org to within an inch of their life and managed to fit in 2 Vindicators, 2 Defilers and 2 Forgefiends and still had at least 4 squads in Rhinos. I think I gave a guy in each squad an autocannon to make a poor man's Razorback and help against flyers, assuming the dakka coming off the Defilers didn't stop them.

 

I'll post better numbers once I'm home and can look at them.

 

Dragonlover

[Nehekhare]

I like my Maulerfiends.

 

same with me and forgefiends. thing is, the rules they got in C:CSM aren't what I wanted to see. So i use the models with other rules. Now my Forgefiend does quite well as a legion mortis contemptor stand-in and I can imagine the maulers being pretty spot on as some of the melee-oriented Mechanicum constructs.