IF Background from Extermination

[Týr]

Nice to see some great background fluff on Inwit. Really looking forward to get a closer look on this book.

 

But since Inwit is now established as an important part of the VII Legion I can't help to wonder that happent to it.

As far I know the Fists are a space based chapter in 40k with no official homeworld. 

I can immagine the Traitor Legions annihilating Inwit before the siege of Terra. That way they could disrupt reinforcements being scraped together at Inwit, and make personel insult to Dorn by destroying everything he had built there. 

 

That could be an awesome battle worthy of a good BL novel and perhaps a FW campaign.

[Olis]

Much as I really want to read the OP, I think I'm going to have to stick my fingers in my ears and shout LA-LA-LA-LA-LA...

[Marshal Rohr]

On the question of the ships, every legion has around 100 capital class vessels (cruiser up to battleships). By my estimation from what I read this would be similar maybe give or take an extra 50 or so for the fists, but the size of their Legion possessed lighter classes and frigates was very high. Inwit was a ship factory, and there is a lot of emphasis on big ship to ship void battles with precision boarding actions. So maybe a few marines here and there through a massive fleet that wasn't organized to assault a planet like the Sons of Horus. Also, given that we haven't seen the UM stuff yet, I'd bet they come pretty close. Dark Angels are also mentioned as having a massive fleet.

[Emperor's Furor]

Nice to see some great background fluff on Inwit. Really looking forward to get a closer look on this book.

 

But since Inwit is now established as an important part of the VII Legion I can't help to wonder that happent to it.

As far I know the Fists are a space based chapter in 40k with no official homeworld. 

I can immagine the Traitor Legions annihilating Inwit before the siege of Terra. That way they could disrupt reinforcements being scraped together at Inwit, and make personel insult to Dorn by destroying everything he had built there. 

 

That could be an awesome battle worthy of a good BL novel and perhaps a FW campaign.

The original fluff had Inwit being kept a secret however it is in 40k still, in the latest Imperial Knights star maps it's located to the south of segmentum solar. The small empire though has never really been expanded upon, whether it's in existence still I don't know.

 

Also I can't help but see myself in the Imperial Fists, apart from the accomplishments, everything else makes me feel like I'm looking in a mirror.

[Dosjetka]

Thanks for all of that info, M2C. Great stuff, really happy with the treament the Fists are currently getting. Can't wait to get my hands on Sigismund and Dorn :wub:

[recon0321]

Well looks like I am going back to my roots! Can't wait

[Disruptor_fe404]

Dornian geneseed being very painful to adapt to is pure fluff gold!

 

Not sure why I'm inordinately happy about that...

[depthcharge12]

Dornian geneseed being very painful to adapt to is pure fluff gold!

 

Not sure why I'm inordinately happy about that...

 

It means you want to join 30k plain and simple....

[Disruptor_fe404]

Nah, it just adds more to my pride in my Successor Chapter.

[recon0321]

I am stuck I definitely want to start a 30k IF Army along with the alpha legion,wolves and dark angels....well mine as well start with Dorn's glorious sons...

[b1soul]

-Mixture of Space Prussian Ice Hives and nomadic Eskimos

 

Prussian Eskimos in space...interesting 

 

That means the Inwit natives are a lot more advanced than I previously thought. I thought of them as somewhat primitive nomadic Eskimo tribes...but apparently they have their own interplanetary empire and pretty advanced spacecraft? 

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

-Mixture of Space Prussian Ice Hives and nomadic Eskimos

Prussian Eskimos in space...interesting

 

That means the Inwit natives are a lot more advanced than I previously thought. I thought of them as somewhat primitive nomadic Eskimo tribes...but apparently they have their own interplanetary empire and pretty advanced spacecraft?

Well it was always said Dorn had the Phalanx before the Emperor found him. He had to get it from somewhere.

[Marshal Rohr]

Personally, I think it is cool that Inwit was a ship factory. The differentiation between the Imperial Fists begin good at sieges AND the undisputed masters of high intensity void warfare helps make the Siege of Terra more believable. It also explains why Phall was a pitched battle instead of a massacre. I can't help but recall John French describing the gigantic defensive sphere the fleet was in when the Iron Warriors attacked and think of Dr. Manhattan's glass castle. Such an awesome visual. Now it makes more sense why the loyalists were able to hold Terra for as long as they did, they had the largest fleet of any legion plus the fleets of the White Scars and Blood Angels, a legion who was masterful in defense if low in numbers, and two other legions famed for their skill at arms. 

 

 

 

All in all it sets the stage for an awesome battle. 

[Conn Eremon]

I believe the whole 1500 ship fleet has been known since the Crimson Fist short, right? When it states that 500 ships were sent out, which constituted a third of the Legion's naval might?

 

Here's the full quote in Extermination:

 

"Aside from the number of its Space Marines, no review of the strength of the Imperial Fists can be complete without noting the strength of their fleet. At the time of the Horus Heresy, the Imperial Fists had over 1,500 warships under their direct command, and many more bonded by oath and fealty. This naval might was the greatest of the Legiones Astartes, and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

 

Extermination, pg 64

 

Makes it sound like they had more ships than any other Legion, but that a substantial amount were not exactly Legion ships. All Legions were augmented by mortal fleets, and it simply sounds like the Fists did it more than any other even though they already had a more than substantial fleet of their own. But it also suggests that it was the strength of the fleets that were unrivaled, rather than the numbers alone. Though I believe the Death Guard Legion was known for having the absolute most capital-class warships, the Imperial Fists appear to have had an inordinate number of these as well, not to mention having quite the impressive collection of void-faring fortresses. It is this combined with their high numbers that makes them unrivaled even to the XIII and the XVI. They didn't just have a lot, they had a lot of the best.

 

So they were a lot like the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines, just with ships instead of troops.

[Nehekhare]

Marshal2 Crusaders, on 31 Mar 2014 - 03:45, said:

 

Inwit

 

-Surrounded by a vast network of shipyards and space fortresses, master ship builders

-The people are the worlds only resource

 

THE PHALANX IS PEOPLE!!!

[Kol Saresk]

I believe the whole 1500 ship fleet has been known since the Crimson Fist short, right? When it states that 500 ships were sent out, which constituted a third of the Legion's naval might?

 

Here's the full quote in Extermination:

 

 

"Aside from the number of its Space Marines, no review of the strength of the Imperial Fists can be complete without noting the strength of their fleet. At the time of the Horus Heresy, the Imperial Fists had over 1,500 warships under their direct command, and many more bonded by oath and fealty. This naval might was the greatest of the Legiones Astartes, and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

Extermination, pg 64

Makes it sound like they had more ships than any other Legion, but that a substantial amount were not exactly Legion ships. All Legions were augmented by mortal fleets, and it simply sounds like the Fists did it more than any other even though they already had a more than substantial fleet of their own. But it also suggests that it was the strength of the fleets that were unrivaled, rather than the numbers alone. Though I believe the Death Guard Legion was known for having the absolute most capital-class warships, the Imperial Fists appear to have had an inordinate number of these as well, not to mention having quite the impressive collection of void-faring fortresses. It is this combined with their high numbers that makes them unrivaled even to the XIII and the XVI. They didn't just have a lot, they had a lot of the best.

 

So they were a lot like the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines, just with ships instead of troops.

Exactly. A Legion's strength is not dependent solely on numbers. For example the Iron Hands blurb in Massacre. Number wise they were a middle Legion at 113,000. But throw the sheer size of their armory and they could go blow to blow with some of the bigger Legions as only the Iron Warriors gad more armour.

[Marshal Rohr]

I've been dissecting the book in detail today and from the sound of it there were about 100 capital class vessels at Phall (cruiser on up) while the rest were dedicated support craft. It makes it out to be a significant allotment of the heaviest classes while the ships left over had what I would estimate to be about another hundred capital ships and 900 ish frigates, craiiers, weapons barques and the like. So while most legions had 100 or so battleships, the fists might've had something like 150-200 and many of those were committed to the Retribution Fleet. I haven't gotten to casualty figures yet, but it looks like 30,000 Fists were at Phall, and took extremely high casualties leaving 70,000 at Terra and Polux's survivors in Ultramar.

[DarKnight]

Are the Templars the 1st Company, or are they just commanded by the First Captain?

[Marshal Rohr]

They are nominally the First Company, but mentioned as fighting across the whole legion. They are a cross between chaplains and exemplars responsible for maintaining the Temple of Oaths so they need to be spread out to list the fallen etc.

[DarKnight]

They are nominally the First Company, but mentioned as fighting across the whole legion. They are a cross between chaplains and exemplars responsible for maintaining the Temple of Oaths so they need to be spread out to list the fallen etc.

Is exemplar an actual rank or do you just mean in the literal sense

[Honda]

Thank you M2C, very much.

 

 

Also, it seems a bit wonky that the Legion with the biggest fleet, that
is to say, the largest amount of things to crusade around conquering
worlds with, got yanked off world conquering duty and used to garrison
Terra.

 

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle. He who controls the seas (i.e. void), controls all the land. That's what made every super power in its day, so powerful. They had the most dominant naval forces. That's been true since the Phoenicians time.

 

That's why, despite Abaddon's successful land grabbing at the Eye of Terror, the campaign was still a marginal loss for Chaos because they weren't able to control the space lanes.

[Wade Garrett]

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

 

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

[Emperor's Furor]

I hope the Imperial Fists are not just the Black Templars wearing yellow now, I hope they have other characteristics.

[marshal seanisi]

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare.  His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious.  Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily.  This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

 

 

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare.  His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious.  Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily.  This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

 

 

I think what Wade was getting at is that Navy victories do not stop land battles from occurring. In fact, sometimes they are what opens the path for future land battles.