IF Background from Extermination

[marshal seanisi]

 

 

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

 

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare.  His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious.  Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily.  This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

 

I think what Wade was getting at is that Navy victories do not stop land battles from occurring. In fact, sometimes they are what opens the path for future land battles.

If you can't get to land than no land battle occours.

[Wade Garrett]

I put Ike on the list because even though the entire Kriegsmarine bar the U-boats got swept off the ocean fairly early on, he still had to footslog his way across France and the Low Countries to finally knock Germany out of the war.

[marshal seanisi]

I figured that was where you were going with that. But imagine if the Nazis controlled the seas to the point where Normandy was unreachable!. The U.S Navy however made that landing possible.

I'm obviously biased. USN VET

[Kol Saresk]

I figured that was where you were going with that. But imagine if the Nazis controlled the seas to the point where Normandy was unreachable!. The U.S Navy however made that landing possible.

I'm obviously biased. USN VET

Yeah, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? As I said, some naval victories are used to make way for land battles. So, it would be true that not all naval battles prevent land battles. I think. Right?

[Olis]

*cough*GETBACKONTOPIC!*cough*

[Honda]

Honda, on 11 Apr 2014 - 13:09, said:

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

Actually, if the Confederate Navy was strong enough to break the Union blockade, England would have been more inclined to provide support. Also, a stronger Confederate navy would have been able to threaten the Northern Eastern seaboard, potentially preventing or delaying Grant's famous "holiday".

The point I was trying to make is that all dominant cultures (and I will grant there are some exceptions like the Mongols conquest of Eurasia), relied on superior naval forces to either prosecute or prevent land war. This has happened from the beginning of time as evidenced by the cultures of Phoenicia, Greece, Rome, Byzantium, Arabia, England, and the US.

So, I was tipping my hat to the Emperor's wisdom of securing the space around Terra as much as possible as a way of further strengthening the defenses of Terra.

[Black Cohort]

 

 

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare. His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious. Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily. This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

Grant was a terrible general,if it hadn't been for the fact that by the end of the war the north cared less about men than the south did about bullets he would have gotten obliterated. Smashing your superior forces into the enemy with no care for how many losses you take doesn't make you a good general. Logistics won the war for the north not Grant. Which reminds me of a certain Primarch...

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

 

 

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare. His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious. Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily. This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

Grant was a terrible general,if it hadn't been for the fact that by the end of the war the north cared less about men than the south did about bullets he would have gotten obliterated. Smashing your superior forces into the enemy with no care for how many losses you take doesn't make you a good general. Logistics won the war for the north not Grant. Which reminds me of a certain Primarch...

If you're suggesting that Guilliman is thematically tied to the North . . .

 

Don't you dare compare General Lee to Horus. I will burn your house down. With the lemons.

[Black Cohort]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare. His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious. Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily. This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

Grant was a terrible general,if it hadn't been for the fact that by the end of the war the north cared less about men than the south did about bullets he would have gotten obliterated. Smashing your superior forces into the enemy with no care for how many losses you take doesn't make you a good general. Logistics won the war for the north not Grant. Which reminds me of a certain Primarch...

If you're suggesting that Guilliman is thematically tied to the North . . .

 

Don't you dare compare General Lee to Horus. I will burn your house down. With the lemons.

No I was implying that having the numbers where you don't need to care about tactics doesn't make you a good general. It makes you a good logistician and in Giant's case it wasn't him that was dealing with logistics. That is where the comparison with Guilliman ended.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your Navy defeats their Navy, then there is no land battle.

Dwight D Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant would profoundly disagree with this statement.

Eisenhower?. He was one of the very few Army Generals with a Strong understanding of Naval warfare. His use of the Navy during the Northern African Theatre of Operations was genious. Not to mention commanding the entire Allied fleet from a logistical standpoint during the Invasion of Sicily. This led to the launch of Operation Avalanche and it was a resounding success.

 

I'll give you Ulysses S. Grant however.

Grant was a terrible general,if it hadn't been for the fact that by the end of the war the north cared less about men than the south did about bullets he would have gotten obliterated. Smashing your superior forces into the enemy with no care for how many losses you take doesn't make you a good general. Logistics won the war for the north not Grant. Which reminds me of a certain Primarch...

If you're suggesting that Guilliman is thematically tied to the North . . .

 

Don't you dare compare General Lee to Horus. I will burn your house down. With the lemons.

No I was implying that having the numbers where you don't need to care about tactics doesn't make you a good general. It makes you a good logistician and in Giant's case it wasn't him that was dealing with logistics. That is where the comparison with Guilliman ended.

I was hoping the Portal reference would make it clear I was being less than serious.

[Wade Garrett]

Grant was a terrible general,if it hadn't been for the fact that by the end of the war the north cared less about men than the south did about bullets he would have gotten obliterated. Smashing your superior forces into the enemy with no care for how many losses you take doesn't make you a good general.

It certainly makes you a better general than smashing your inferior forces into an enemy without a care for your own casualties, as Robert E. Lee did when he ordered a charge uphill against a dug in enemy position at Gettysburg.

 

Grant was one of the best generals on either side during the War Between The States, and it always baffles me that the same people who claim Lee could walk on water will proclaim that the man who made him cry uncle was an incompetent thug whose only qualification for command was knowing which way to point when ordering a charge.

 

And by the by, Bobby Lee handed over his sword because Ulysses had OUTMANUVERED him and put the Army of the Potomac squarely between the Army of Northern Virginia and its supply lines.

 

And you can Pickett's Charge that right up your Cold Harbor, boyo.

[Perrin]

With all this talk of naval warfare, surely 40k space battles are more akin to aerial warfare if we're talking about it having an effect on the land battle.

Enemy fleets approaching a planet with the intention of making landfall (i.e. Guilliman at Nuceria, traitors at Terra) is a naval battle, but as soon as the troops are landed it becomes a battle for air superiority and the benefits that it brings to the troops on the ground in terms of better manoeuvrability, communications, keeping an eye on enemy movements and of course massive orbital bombardment

Not that I have a point or anything, it was just something that occurred to me while reading all the posts of naval warfare.

[Black Cohort]

 

 

Grant was a terrible general,if it hadn't been for the fact that by the end of the war the north cared less about men than the south did about bullets he would have gotten obliterated. Smashing your superior forces into the enemy with no care for how many losses you take doesn't make you a good general.

It certainly makes you a better general than smashing your inferior forces into an enemy without a care for your own casualties, as Robert E. Lee did when he ordered a charge uphill against a dug in enemy position at Gettysburg.

 

Grant was one of the best generals on either side during the War Between The States, and it always baffles me that the same people who claim Lee could walk on water will proclaim that the man who made him cry uncle was an incompetent thug whose only qualification for command was knowing which way to point when ordering a charge.

 

And by the by, Bobby Lee handed over his sword because Ulysses had OUTMANUVERED him and put the Army of the Potomac squarely between the Army of Northern Virginia and its supply lines.

 

And you can Pickett's Charge that right up your Cold Harbor, boyo.

No where did I claim that General Lee was awesome, but for the record he was sick at Gettysburg and his chief artillery guy messed up the preliminary bombardment before Pickett's charge. I have never understood how people consider Grant a great general but he wasn't terrible either. But it is kind of hard to lose when you have more men, more cannons, newer rifles, more food and better transport.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, McClellan, Burnside, and Hooker all managed it well enough.

 

The "losing while having every advantage on paper", I mean.

 

And while Grant is best known for heading up the Army of the Potomac at the war's end, he earned that spot with his victories out West and at Vicksburg.

 

Those are worth looking at if you're really curious about how he made his reputation.

[Kol Saresk]

I could have sworn we were already given the http://i.qkme.me/3r3ku1.jpg

[Black Cohort]

Back on topic, the greatest army in the galaxy is useless if it cannot get to the target due to space or orbital assets.  But space fleets by themselves can only rule through fear of exterminatus.  Both space and ground forces are necessary to have something worth keeping at the end of a campaign.

 

 

 

 

But yes Wade I know of what he did before arriving in the eastern theatre, I just came to different conclusions about his effectiveness than you have.  So lets agree to disagree on the topic.

[Wade Garrett]

Works for me.

 

I can only assume we've been allowed to natter about the U.S. Civil War this long because the Moderatai are napping ATM.

[Honda]

<yawns>

 

The long and the short of it is, there are historical precedents for what the Emperor did. People are free to derive their own conclusions as to the wisdom of his decisions. ;)

[depthcharge12]

Works for me.

I can only assume we've been allowed to natter about the U.S. Civil War this long because the Moderatai are napping ATM.

Everybody knows that the white supremacists from South Africa made a time machine and brought back AK-47s to the south and gave Lee glycerine for his heart conditions to win the war. Oh wait that's alternate history :P and a good book haha

 

 

I would like to see a good match up between Lotarra Sarin and Alexis Polux in some void warfare.

 

 

I would buy that book in a second. Even though Polux has plot armor......

[Kol Saresk]

I would buy that book in a second. Even though Polux has plot armor......

So did Lucius.

[Conn Eremon]

A Turtledove reference?

 

You are my new favorite person.

[Marshal Rohr]

All I took from this was Abaddon drives a lifted truck with bumper stickers that say 'the Legions will rise again' and 'it's not hate, it's Heritage' with an Eye of Horus.

[Conn Eremon]

All I took from this was Abaddon drives a lifted truck with bumper stickers that say 'the Legions will rise again' and 'it's not hate, it's Heritage' with an Eye of Horus.

On top, right?

 

Right?

[depthcharge12]

 

I would buy that book in a second. Even though Polux has plot armor......

So did Lucius.

That was bad writing. Not Lucius' fault :D

 

 

A Turtledove reference?

You are my new favorite person.

Damn...someone knows that I do something intelligent like read books....

 

 

*switches over to swilling beer and picking lint out of belly button*

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Lucius getting punked was bad writing? Which time?

 

WLK