AL Fluff from book 3

[Tenebris]

Well we speak of the Alpha Legion, everything we are being told is truth but it is also a lie... and I like it that way.

 

Numbers beyond other legions, countless warmachines that come from somewhere, nasty spec ops in power armor, vast recruitment centres and a total control over everything and everyone... yes, it sounds like Alpha Legion to me. 

 

Was it all this part of the plan... well yes, we speak of the Alpha Legion afterall, they are the proof that Big E knew full well that sometimes something needs to die silently, precisely and quickly. 

[Perrin]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the new Alpha Legion stuff, I just think that they should have been more vanilla up until finding Alpharius. Or maybe he was there all along?!

Can someone pleaseeee post all of the Alpharius founding - this is a lie quotes

[Xin Ceithan]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the new Alpha Legion stuff, I just think that they should have been more vanilla up until finding Alpharius. Or maybe he was there all along?!

 

 

 

Can someone pleaseeee post all of the Alpharius founding - this is a lie quotes :thanks:

Then again it makes much more sense if AL were equipped / set up to be spec ops from the start to have such an enormous infrastructure up and ready before the reunion. And it is awkwardly in line with the Legion doing things this way without a primarch in a "one of many" heads of the hydra style of operation all along. it surely makes more sense than Alpharius railroading the legion from frontline grunts to a spec ops capable legion and support close to the end of the crusade to me.

 

And do bring on those beautiful lies, please

[Marshal Rohr]

Well the trefoil of special legions thing still makes me think the Emperor specifically intended for 3 Legions to do something different. Space Wolves have the weird anti-chaos gene seed, so maybe they were going to be sent into the web way to clean it out. Salamanders have Vulkans endurance and it looks like the Emperor wanted a battering ram legion, and then the Alpha Legion would be the clandestine operatives. Simple enough. 

[Tenebris]

Well I am of the line of thought that most legions were created with a specific theatre of war, a field of martial knowledge in mind. While as legions a good 2/3 of the astartes were in fact generic units of infantry, armor, artillery and so on, each legion had its specialists. In my opinion is that while the AL had units, squads or even companies that performed special operations the bulk of the legion like that of the other legions was made from generic units. 

 

A legion on the other has is much more than specialists, actually the concept of legion, their dramatis persona is in their beliefs, in their tactics and in their mindframe. I was always of the mind that most legions had clearly defined traits and idiosyncrasies way before their reunion with their primarchs. The primarchs than only acted as powerful catalysts for the complete morphing of a legion as being the living embodiment of the spirit and the soul of a legion.

[Kol Saresk]

It could also have been that since they were the last Legion, this was the easiest to get combat experience for as many of them as possible.

 

And the subterfuge was to keep the idea of favoritism or "the Eye of the Emperor is upon you" type of reaction.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

Not all of them, though. With Magnus, yes. Lorgar, maybe.

 

Bit with most it seems like he just had a rough idea of where they might be.

But he used their psychic beacons to find them, no? So isn't that a link of sorts? Its possible that he could have seen flashes of their personalities and then made them according to what he saw.

It just seems like a stretch. There was interaction between Magnus only because he was a developing psyker, which implies to me that there was no interaction, from one or the other, between the other Primarchs.

 

Lorgar, a budding or latent psyker, only got enough to experience a greater power. Konrad had visions of the future only. The Emperor took on a disguise to see what some Primarchs had become when he had found them.

 

I believe that all he got with this bond is an idea of where they were and that is it. Magnus was the exception because he could, in a psychic sense, meet the Emperor halfway.

[DuskRaider]

You also have to remember, Alpha Legion were THE last Legion made. The others were produced en masse and sent to conquer, crusade, and do the Emperor's bidding. I think at the point that the XXth was produced, the Emperor decided that perhaps he didn't need a large Legion so much as he needed an extremely specialized one. I think this would be more the reason that Alpha Legion were sneaky gits prior to Alpharius, and perhaps it's more coincidence that their Primarch is also King Sneaky Git. Then again, the Emperor could have genetically engineered each Primarch with a different disposition ahead of time, and so their Legions mirror that.

[Noserenda]

Ill Summarise the Origin Stories, Or, the Alpharius Enigma ;) (As they are long!) Turns out there was 5 listed in the box, maybe another somewhere else? Or maybe i just got confused :D

The first is a version of the one put into the IA article with him boarding Horus' flagship and them meeting face to face.

The next talks about him landing on a nameless corpse world, host to only ghosts and ruins of a fallen civilisation where he survived alone for many years before the arrival of a ship of human/xenos pirate types looking for booty. Alpharius killed them all, stole their knowledge and took off in their ship to seek out daddy.

Two talk about him landing on a populated world that was destroyed by the Slaugth, they captured Alpharius, the Only one strong enough to resist them and twisted him into a living weapon to herald their arrival with strife and discord before they turned up for dinner. In the End the Emperor saved him personally and they spent many years together fixing him up from the Xenos influence. Though in one tale part of him is left behind.

The Last says that when the Primarchs were scattered Alpharius was instead left behind gravely wounded and nursed to health and maturity by the Emperor personally. He was kept secret to protect him from the "Dark fates" and became the Emperors secret hand and greatest shield until it was time to lead his Legion in the open.

I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle :P

[Emperor's Furor]

That last one reminds me a thread on the old black library forums, it was about the sign of the zodiac and how they related to the Emperor's Sons, but I think the hidden hand of the Emperor in the end referred to Corax's special power.

[Perrin]

Ill Summarise the Origin Stories, Or, the Alpharius Enigma (As they are long!) Turns out there was 5 listed in the box, maybe another somewhere else? Or maybe i just got confused

The first is a version of the one put into the IA article with him boarding Horus' flagship and them meeting face to face.

The next talks about him landing on a nameless corpse world, host to only ghosts and ruins of a fallen civilisation where he survived alone for many years before the arrival of a ship of human/xenos pirate types looking for booty. Alpharius killed them all, stole their knowledge and took off in their ship to seek out daddy.

Two talk about him landing on a populated world that was destroyed by the Slaugth, they captured Alpharius, the Only one strong enough to resist them and twisted him into a living weapon to herald their arrival with strife and discord before they turned up for dinner. In the End the Emperor saved him personally and they spent many years together fixing him up from the Xenos influence. Though in one tale part of him is left behind.

The Last says that when the Primarchs were scattered Alpharius was instead left behind gravely wounded and nursed to health and maturity by the Emperor personally. He was kept secret to protect him from the "Dark fates" and became the Emperors secret hand and greatest shield until it was time to lead his Legion in the open.

I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle

Still like the original version the best I think. The Slaugth and Left Behind ones don't leave much room for Omegon to be around, unless the Emperor knows about him? Also the Slaugth one I'd expect him to be a bit more messed up, ala Angron, and would have led to him slaughtering the Cabal as soon as they appeared.

The dead planet one shocked me, I read the first half and assumed he'd/they'd become their captain and forge the pirates into a fleet or ask for a lift to a populated planet but nah, too easy, just kill them all and take their stuff

[Marshal Rohr]

Im sad everyone is excited about the Alpha Legion, when the real stars of book 3 are the Fists and Iron Warriors. 

 

 

 

I mean, did Alpharius ever make 90% of his legion beat 10% of their brothers to death with their bare hands? How awesome is that? But nooooo, everybody wants to talk about the Primarch that spends all his time trying not to be a Primarch!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D

His helmet is legit though. 

[Greyall]

Wait, Perturabo did what now!? I thought he'd cleansed the Legion through some suicidal campaign.

 

Also, Corax didn't really sacrifice his troops out of cruelty, mate. The Terran RG pretty much volunteered to make the suicidal charge since they'd campaigned with Horus for a long time and were close to him. Corax even cut off any further co-campaigning with the Warmaster.

 

I actually like the attrition among the Ravens, very suitable and adds meaning to Corax's freedom-fighter youth.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

What the background like for the Iron Warriors?  So far I seen topic on the (hated :D ) Imperial Fist & Alpha Legion quick some note.

[depthcharge12]

When Perturabo rejoined his Legion, he decided that since they were not the best of all the Legions, they would be punished. Their punishment was old school Roman Decimation. The losers were drawn by lots and were beaten to death by the lucky ones. 

 

Wow that's pretty brutal. Was it after a battle or was he like: "Ohhh I see how it is. Daddy didn't give me the Ultramarines Legion (clearly the best) so imma just gonna kill off some of you guys for fun"?

 

 

:D

[captain Angel]

I think that it is interesting that Dorn is the caring but dutiful and distant father, never complaining, while Pert is the abusive angry father content with his own projects, angered for getting the awful jobs. Otherwise, they are two sides of the same coin.

[Conn Eremon]

His reasoning was simply that they hadn't become the best. Which caused others in the Imperial Court to freak out because they were a very accomplished legion with no shortage of victories.

 

 

Perturabo is a lot like the dad that spanks his kids at the end of every day for all the bad things they might've done that he hadn't seen.

Perturabo is the High Expectations Asian Father.

[Phoros]

I love it when the Horus Heresy books retroactively validate some decision made in one of my projects.

 

Scars provided a validation for both.

 

I always found it interesting how the Khan's greatest fear was becoming lazy and passive, which was exactly what happened to the Dornian Heresy Jaghatai.

[Kol Saresk]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but I feel that it id evidence for my theory that the some of the Legions were influenced by their Primarchs from afar.

 

When the Raven Guard were just the XIX Legion, only a small number had pale skin, with a smaller number of that having black hair and eyes. But when they were reunited with Corax, the effect became full-blown throughout the Legion.

 

Since the Alpha Legion was the last Legion produced and spent quality time with the Emperor while Alpharius was spending quality time with Horus(according to the IA articles), it would mean that there was a possibility of a closer connection between Primarch and nascent Legion than any other except Horus and the XVI. Which would mean it wasn't "coincidence" but rather the gene-seed resonating with its Primogenitor and influencing the implanted Astartes.

 

And the Emperor could have used this by finding recruits psychologically compatible with the changes he was observing, which would create a stronger resonance. And twenty bucks says that was the psychic beacon he used to track down the Primarchs. B)

[Scribe]

Funny, I complained about this with the Night Lords in Book 2.

 

At this point, I chalk it up to genetics across the board. Its pretty plain that FW wants them to be templates of the Primarchs.

[Kol Saresk]

The only reason I honestly see to complain about it is "It doesn't match my vision." But so far I haven't seen any suggestions on how to make them different.

[Emperor's Furor]

Dorn is pretty much me.

[Kol Saresk]

"Sanity is relative. Anyone who believes otherwise is not sane."

[Kol Saresk]

Number One and Number Two: We still don't know how much, if any, of a person's mentality is affected by genetics. Hence the argument nurture vs nature. So far, most experiments in predicting personality by genetics have been severely flawed and have either outright failed or have had questionable successes. For example, that one social experiment that hypothesized those with an extra Y chromosome would become criminals. Some did, and some didn't. But some of those who did were found to have had abusive upbringing where they were taught they were born evil. And it was the same for some of those who didn't become criminals. Similar upbringing, similar genetics, and yet two different results.

 

Personally, I believe its the gene-seed. Sounds like a similar argument, I know. But the gene-seed is supposed to rewrite the victimrecipient's genetic material to closer match the Primarch's genetic material.

 

In ancient times, and in some parts of the world today, blood is considered to have a great deal of power.

 

In some cultures, it was common that if you ate certain body parts of something(or someone) you killed, you would gain their strength.

 

Trading blood with someone was believed to create an unbreakable bond between two people, which would keep them from betraying each other.

 

Others thought that its power was enough to make demands of the gods themselves.

 

And there are some today who believe the blood of a god is enough to grant your soul immortal life, provided you obey his commands.

 

In 40K and WHF, blood magic is singular in that it is the only magic Khorne approves of. 1.)Because it is blood and 2.)it is just that powerful.

 

The Primarchs are psychic beings who are infused with the warp, a literal realm of magic. Or at least what can be considered magic.

 

The gene-seed is their exact genetic material, their "blood" so to speak. By having it implanted, an Astartes gains a psychic link to his Primarch. This is why the Iron Hands go berserk when Ferrus is killed. And in my belief the effect was magnified for the Blood Angels because they have the literal blood of a Primarch pumped into their veins alongside the gene-seed, resulting in an even stronger connection.

 

And if we think about it, so far the most "divergent" Legions from their pre-discovery incarnations and their post-discovery incarnations are those with the least psychically active Primarchs: the Death Guard, the Iron Hands, and the Salamanders. Even Angron has displayed signs of biomancy and I'm sure putting pain-engines that kill psykers in his head has caused all kinds of psychic ripples.

 

And I think the Emperor used this connection to determine what kind of recruits were psychologically compatible with which gene-seed.

[Hyaenidae]

Thus why I said...
 

 

 why couldn't the greatest mind in human history, with all the non-existent and far fetched super-science of the 31st millennium, with a deal with four immortal daemon-gods added to the mix, select the defining mental and psychological traits of his demi-god sons?

 

 

 

Genetics with blood magic and god powers is still genetics.