Yogi Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I was thinking about this image. It perplexed me when I first saw it. There are three skulls which some have said joking or otherwise there might be 3 primarchs. However, there are only two Hydra heads. The third skull center skull has no Hydra, it has the 'A'. My theory is that neither primarch is called or thinks of himself as Alpharius. Instead Alpharius is a role both Omegon and Sigmarius (or whatever) play. As do their regular marines. So Alpharius is always nobody and everybody in the Alpha Legion. When you kill Alpharius you kill somebody, but you can never truly kill Alpharius as he has never actually existed, he is simply a role. I could be wrong of course, its just a theory. And no doubt Black Library's HH work could be brought up to challenge the assertion. Or the actual stuff written in book 3... But that is my thoughts on the three skulls. Alan Bligh and the Forge World team, you do great work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The "third skull" conspiracy theory is just so Alpha Legion. Misdirenctions and lies, well done Alan Bligh, well done... [Edit]: Yes, I do think you are wrong. There is nothing from FW or BL that remotely hints at there being a "third primarch" or that Alpharius doesn't think of himself as such. Legion pretty much dissapproves that, as does The Serpent Beneath and all other BL stuff I can think of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 @Excessus: I am not saying their is a third primarch. Im saying Alpharius is a fiction, played by the twins and the Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It certainly fits with the layers-within-layers thing, Yogi. It's a wonder Tzeentch didn't go for the Alphas rather than the Thousand Sons... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 @Excessus: I am not saying their is a third primarch. Im saying Alpharius is a fiction, played by the twins and the Legion. Everything from BL says it isn't so. The primarchs are there as proper personas, I think you are thinking too much about this imho... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That would be interesting, but I think the truth is more of a mixture. They are Alpharius and Omegon, but both consider their identities to be roles that can be added, removed and swapped around without much care. The skulls are not referring to the Primarchs, but to the three roles that all Alpha Legionnaires, including the twin Primarchs, are trained to play as. The Primarchs Alpharius and Omegon, and a Legionary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 @Excessus I don't hold Legion in high regard. But I understand it contradicts the assertion I'm making. Though I could argue at that time the Sigma Primarch was playing Alpharius, why he would need to or bother doesn't make sense. But Legion sux anyway. IIRC Legion says they wear purple/indigo/almost blue. But FW put it right and made em blue. @Deus Ex I guess Tzeentch likes magic too much. @Cormac I would say yours is the superior theory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the sigma, which often means "sum" in math, represents the whole Legion. Sort of like SPQR being Senatus Populusque Romanus. Or as a "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". It is my impression that the Alpharius and Omegon are pretty proud of their gene-sons, so it makes sense to me that they would put themselves and their legion on the same level in their iconography (on the same level on the iconography they show everyone else). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the sigma, which often means "sum" in math, represents the whole Legion. Sort of like SPQR being Senatus Populusque Romanus. Or as a "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". It is my impression that the Alpharius and Omegon are pretty proud of their gene-sons, so it makes sense to me that they would put themselves and their legion on the same level in their iconography (on the same level on the iconography they show everyone else). As a currently-struggling-in-Statistics-student who was recently introduced to Sigma as "summation," I must say that this. . . . . . . . makes a whole lot of sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 In the fluff it lists some of the previous stories about how Alpharius was found by the Imperium. After each one it says "this account is a lie" The Alpha Legion are the very definition of ambiguity Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Maybe the third one landed on a certain feudal world that had humans living (though constantly fighting) alongside Eldar, Squats, even Orks, Hrud and Tarellians? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vile Siren Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If there was a third one I have a feeling it could be Exodus but I think it is just Alpharius and Omegon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the sigma, which often means "sum" in math, represents the whole Legion. Sort of like SPQR being Senatus Populusque Romanus. Or as a "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". It is my impression that the Alpharius and Omegon are pretty proud of their gene-sons, so it makes sense to me that they would put themselves and their legion on the same level in their iconography (on the same level on the iconography they show everyone else). As a currently-struggling-in-Statistics-student who was recently introduced to Sigma as "summation," I must say that this. . . . . . . . makes a whole lot of sense. This would be making a lot of sense. I personally don't see a third primarch in this. The twin idea was mind blowing and totally into XX in so many ways. But if you want to add some more (mis?) direction into this: there were twenty legions. twenty one primarchs. A "ghost" legion from the beginning of the great crusade, using the colours of the other legions. Maybe the third primarch isn't a triplet ...but a lost brother ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3638993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the sigma, which often means "sum" in math, represents the whole Legion. Sort of like SPQR being Senatus Populusque Romanus. Or as a "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". It is my impression that the Alpharius and Omegon are pretty proud of their gene-sons, so it makes sense to me that they would put themselves and their legion on the same level in their iconography (on the same level on the iconography they show everyone else). True that today CAPITAL sigma is used to represent a sum. But who knows what such an ancient symbol might mean in 30k years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the sigma, which often means "sum" in math, represents the whole Legion. Sort of like SPQR being Senatus Populusque Romanus. Or as a "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". It is my impression that the Alpharius and Omegon are pretty proud of their gene-sons, so it makes sense to me that they would put themselves and their legion on the same level in their iconography (on the same level on the iconography they show everyone else). True that today CAPITAL sigma is used to represent a sum. But who knows what such an ancient symbol might mean in 30k years. It means that Alpha Legionnaires are really just Frat guys in space. The Alpha Omega Sigmas....crashin yo party and stealin yo beer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the book legion pretty much states that there are only 2. One of the cabal even say that they are one soul in two bodies. With that being said i really hope that BL sticks to the old fluff and have guilliman kill one of them. This would explain why the AL stayed on the chaos side after horus failed. I'd imagine getting half of your soul killed would make you all kinds of crazy. Plus having alpharius survive would only make for more one sided AL stories. (Deliverance Lost anyone?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unintentional Batman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 With that being said i really hope that BL sticks to the old fluff and have guilliman kill one of them. That didn't happen in the old fluff, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 @Excessus I don't hold Legion in high regard. But I understand it contradicts the assertion I'm making. Though I could argue at that time the Sigma Primarch was playing Alpharius, why he would need to or bother doesn't make sense. But Legion sux anyway. IIRC Legion says they wear purple/indigo/almost blue. But FW put it right and made em blue. The Alphas indeed were Indigo at one point in time. A Serpent Beneath and Scars have mentioned that they are in the process of changing their colors. Presumably, the forces under command of Omegon are still Indigo, while those closest to Alpharius are the new Blue/Green. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 With that being said i really hope that BL sticks to the old fluff and have guilliman kill one of them. That didn't happen in the old fluff, though. According to old fluff, Guilliman killed Alpharius Omegon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 With that being said i really hope that BL sticks to the old fluff and have guilliman kill one of them. That didn't happen in the old fluff, though. According to old fluff, Guilliman killed Alpharius Omegon. Do we really need to get into this *again*? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I wasn't referring to any of the current theories, just stating what the old IAs said. Back then, we only knew about Alpharius Omegon. We did not know of any twin Primarchs. Back then, Alpharius Omegon is killed by Guilliman. The part where doubt can come into play, back then, is that the Ultramarines don't claim it and the death of the Primarch didn't have the effect on the enemy command hierarchy that was expected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The thing I don't like about alpharius/omegon being so blended with their legion is that it seems to dilute the importance of primarchs in general. I get the strength, guile and sense of anonymity, and I don't mind this being a hallmark of the legion as a whole, but it seems to diminish the fact that a primacy/the primarchs of the XXth are one of/two of 18/20 uniquely gifted and capable beings. Again, I get it, I really do. This way anyone can be alpharius. But at the end of the day, there was only ever one/two primarchs. Since we cannot assume that the entire legion shares the benefits of being a primarch, we have to conclude that the entire legion, as far as it is aware, has conceded the advantage that having a primarch around grants. I know, I know, they don't need a primacy, as Eskrador proved, but I find it kind of a shame that someone as significant as a primarch has lost, or rather traded/relegated his personal presence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The report of what happened on Eskrador was published by an Inquisitor who was accused of being a traitor, then shortly disappeared, and is now suspected to be an Alpha Legion plant. Although, reading about all he said, and the fact that he disappeared straight after the Ikrilla Conclave, during which he said that the Alpha Legion were recruiting large numbers of marines somewhere within the Imperium, and accused Terra of ignoring the threat, makes me think that he was taken out by Alpha Legion operatives because he knew too much. Maybe Girreaux is Alpha Legion?! But anyway, regardless of whether Eskrador is true or not, I think a Legion civil war is on the cards for the Alphas. Omegon vs Alpharius, with the loser (Omegon) becoming Janus of the Grey Knights It also just occurred to me that we've never seen Alpharius Omegon in action? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The thing I don't like about alpharius/omegon being so blended with their legion is that it seems to dilute the importance of primarchs in general. I get the strength, guile and sense of anonymity, and I don't mind this being a hallmark of the legion as a whole, but it seems to diminish the fact that a primacy/the primarchs of the XXth are one of/two of 18/20 uniquely gifted and capable beings. Again, I get it, I really do. This way anyone can be alpharius. But at the end of the day, there was only ever one/two primarchs. Since we cannot assume that the entire legion shares the benefits of being a primarch, we have to conclude that the entire legion, as far as it is aware, has conceded the advantage that having a primarch around grants. I know, I know, they don't need a primacy, as Eskrador proved, but I find it kind of a shame that someone as significant as a primarch has lost, or rather traded/relegated his personal presence. I think that they know when to be anonymous and when to stand out. When a Primarch is needed on the field, they throw off the cover of anonymity and become the glorious demi gods that they are. The rules in the upcoming book show this quite nicely I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 See, all these theories - mainly the one about it representing the Legion as a whole - make a lot of sense... ...But damn it, stop crushing my dream of it being Sigmar! I'm guessing that it may have been added as a reference to the old "Sigmar is actually a lost Primarch/Sigmar is actually Alpharius" theory, and that it doesn't actually mean anything, much like the cover of the Sigilite. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288888-alpha-legions-three-skulls/#findComment-3639343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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