Supplements, Allies, Named Characters, and Dataslates

[Agnos]

I had a pair of questions regarding supplements, and I'm trying to expand my answers between groups of players that might have some experience; not just my play-group. I also had a question regarding the Crimson Slaughter book, specifically, since its wording differs from the Black Legion supplement (and I would assume others).

1) Assuming it's legal to take a named character (they all have Veterans of the Long War in their profile, but none have the ability to take it as an upgrade) in the crimson slaughter supplement, there's still no mention of how their fixed Warlord Traits (all found in the Chaos Space Marine codex) apply.

Does anyone have any evidence of how taking Huron Blackheart (or whoever) in a Crimson Slaughter primary detachment (as the warlord) would affect the Warlord Trait for your army? I know Farsight has his original Tau 'dex trait, but is that an exception or a precedent?

2) Can I take a chaos space marine data sheet (cyphers fallen angels, specifically) in a force org consisting of imperial guard/Astra militarum as the primary detachment and, say, tau as a secondary detachment, since both detachments are able to ally with CSM? The wording on data slates suggests this, but is also vague.

3) Could anyone clarify for me exactly how supplements ally with one another? I've seen other sites post very large, complex force organization charts that detail how detachments relate to fortifications, data slates and sheets, and "special" codices such as Imperial Knights, Legion of the Damned, and Inquisition forces. However, the actual supplements to these new codices are vague in their descriptions with how they ally to each other. Here's my example:

My chaos space marine army might ally with tau in the future. However, I would like to play crimson slaughter as my primary detachment. Furthermore, the tau I choose to ally with would be better off as coming from the Farsight supplement (which, I apologize, I do not own or have access to). According to what I see in the crimson slaughter supp., this is impossible, as it does not state it is allowed to do such a thing. Am I wrong? Is there any way I could play two supplement 'dexes allied together without any units from either parent codex? I've seen people discuss this on forums to do with this specific book, but I don't buy the argument that it follows the rules for the CSM book and then has other options. I read that first sentence as: "You can play Crimson Slaughter from the CSM book, OR you can accept ALL of the following rules and play by them (including, RAW, only being able to ally with CSM)." ...however, it'd be nice to see it reversed or argued otherwise.

[CovertToaster]

As I understand it the farsight supplement is a supplement to the Tau codex and therefore anyone that can ally with tau can ally with a farsight primary detachment.

 

What can happen is you can use the Crimson Slaughter supplement as the primary detachment and then C:CSM as the allied force. After that if your base codex allows it you can start adding an Inquisitorial detachment or Imperial Knights.

[Morollan]

 

1) Does anyone have any evidence of how taking Huron Blackheart (or whoever) in a Crimson Slaughter primary detachment (as the warlord) would affect the Warlord Trait for your army? I know Farsight has his original Tau 'dex trait, but is that an exception or a precedent?

This is a bit tricky. Crimson Slaughter army lists are picked from Codex: Chaos Space Marines with the alterations shown in the Crimson Slaughter book. One of these alterations is that the only units that can take the Veterans of the Long War special rule are Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines. Huron already has this rule so does this prevent him, and any other special character with that rule, from being taken in a Crimson Slaughter force? I'd have to say yes but I can see the argument either way.

 

 

2) Can I take a chaos space marine data sheet (cyphers fallen angels, specifically) in a force org consisting of imperial guard/Astra militarum as the primary detachment and, say, tau as a secondary detachment, since both detachments are able to ally with CSM? The wording on data slates suggests this, but is also vague.

 

That's fine as CSM are allies of convenience with both Tau and IG.

 

 

3) Could anyone clarify for me exactly how supplements ally with one another? I've seen other sites post very large, complex force organization charts that detail how detachments relate to fortifications, data slates and sheets, and "special" codices such as Imperial Knights, Legion of the Damned, and Inquisition forces. However, the actual supplements to these new codices are vague in their descriptions with how they ally to each other. Here's my
example:

My chaos space marine army might ally with tau in the future. However, I would like to play crimson slaughter as my primary detachment. Furthermore, the tau I choose to ally with would be better off as coming from the Farsight supplement (which, I apologize, I do not own or have access to). According to what I see in the crimson slaughter supp., this is impossible, as it does not state it is allowed to do such a thing. Am I wrong? Is there any way I could play two supplement 'dexes allied together without any units from either parent codex? I've seen people discuss this on forums to do with this specific book, but I don't buy the argument that it follows the rules for the CSM book and then has other options. I read that first sentence as: "You can play Crimson Slaughter from the CSM book, OR you can accept ALL of the following rules and play by them (including, RAW, only being able to ally with CSM)." ...however, it'd be
nice to see it reversed or argued otherwise.

Firstly, I don’t agree with your idea that RAW the Crimson Slaughter can only ally with CSM. Their codex says “It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used in addition to those found in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.” (emphasis mine).  So you use the normal ally rules for CSM plus the additional rules for allies found in Codex Crimson Slaughter (which allows them to ally with CSM).

With regard to other supplements, they all function in the same way as their parent codex. So if you can ally with Tau you can ally with Farsight Enclaves. If you can ally with Eldar you can ally with Iyanden etc.

Hope that helps.
 

[Kristoff]

Morollan, on 01 Apr 2014 - 01:53, said:

With regard to other supplements, they all function in the same way as their parent codex. So if you can ally with Tau you can ally with Farsight Enclaves. If you can ally with Eldar you can ally with Iyanden etc.

Iyanden specifically states that only one supplement may be used per army. I'm not sure this carries on to the other supplements, but Iyanden definitely cannot be Allied to another Supplement.

[Morollan]

 

Morollan, on 01 Apr 2014 - 01:53, said:

With regard to other supplements, they all function in the same way as their parent codex. So if you can ally with Tau you can ally with Farsight Enclaves. If you can ally with Eldar you can ally with Iyanden etc.

Iyanden specifically states that only one supplement may be used per army. I'm not sure this carries on to the other supplements, but Iyanden definitely cannot be Allied to another Supplement.

 

They seem to be refining the rules as time goes by. Iyanden and Farsight does indeed say that but Black Legion says "Note that you can only use the options from one codex supplement when choosing a detachment" and I can't see anything at all in the Crimson Slaughter. Apologies that I didn't spot this in my earlier reply.

[Agnos]

That's all very interesting, actually. The idea that they're refining rules is great, minus that they don't retroactively apply the changes to older dexes (or supplements, in this case). The idea that they're not is woefully saddening, because then this is all due to lack of care when writing...

 

I think for now I'm going to have to talk to anyone putting on tournaments before playing in them, and i'll try to post my findings. Failing that, I'll go by literal RAW. Thanks!