Iron Warrior info from book 3?

[Marshal Rohr]

Perturabo's absolute, methodical standards also lend itself to rapidly producing anything really. The guy was the smartest Primarch in matters like that. 

[Augustus]

Dark Knight,

 

He mentions that they are one of the last loyal legions at full strength. Or so I recall.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Is there any background on the - Stor-bezashk? 

[Nehekhare]

Is there any background on the - Stor-bezashk? 

 

yes, but no more than in angel exterminatus from what I've been able to read.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Stor-bezashk looks like a fraternity that the legions artillerists are in.

[depthcharge12]

The Stor-bezashk looks like a fraternity that the legions artillerists are in.

So they do keg stands when not lobbing rounds at people? :P

 

 

Quite interested in the requirements to be accepted into this group...are they lodge members? Veteran status? The "behaving" iron warriors?

[Nehekhare]

there is a big fluff part on the lodges...brethren of stone, tempest, gold, iron, etc.

 

stor-bezashk is none of those, but the legion's artillery reserve, siege terminators included.

[Marshal Rohr]

Anybody notice the strong connection between the Iron Warriors and the Minotaurs?

[Perrin]

Anybody notice the strong connection between the Iron Warriors and the Minotaurs?

 

Were there any out-and-out hints like ATS and Blood Ravens, or is it just the character of the Legion?

[Marshal Rohr]

The markings and description of their fleet. The labyrinth on the Daedalos Krata sounds identical to Perturabos private chamber

[BassWave]

Makes sense. The High Lords of Terra needed a chapter to do their dirty work. One that had no political ties to other chapters or imperial organizations. They saw all this remarkably pure geneseed behind a sealed vault labeled IV. Now the rest is history.

[Nehekhare]

yep. called that long before. paranoid siege specialists with olympian greek background?

 

also the silver skulls (dantioch).

[Brofist]

Anybody notice the strong connection between the Iron Warriors and the Minotaurs?

 

Yeah man, if I remember right its pretty heavily alluded that the Minotaurs are a successor chapter to the IWs or maybe another 30k heretical army.

[Knight of the First Legion]

Also in the latest Imperial Armour a colour image is shown of a MK V Mortis Dreadnought along with a description stating unknown origins.

 

The First and Fouth legions heavily used Mortis pattern dreads during the crusade/heresy.

 

Minotaurs are looking more like sons of Perturabo all the time.

 

KOTFL

[Tenebris]

I have read the info on the Iron Warriors from Extermination. I must say that apart some highlights (decimation and an overplay on "bitterness") I quite enjoyed the read. The Iron Warriors are quite striking as they are described and I love how it is aptly portrayed that there were not only artillerists a speciality of the legion but also vast columns of armour. Also I loved the part of Perturabo and Olympia, a really nice insight in the steampunk culture on the homeworld of the Iron Warriors. 

[Nehekhare]

I devoured the IW content and I was thrilled. Then I read the IF content and I was pissed.

 

both are born into an empire, yet dorn's is interstellar. Dorn's zealots crusade from world to world while also building the best fortresses, yet the IV dissolves itself over garrisoning their conquests and "throw men at walls" (not to mention the punishment of lorgar for his zeal).

 

every fault is turned into a virtue. what traits they share become brooding bitterness for one, but stalward endurance in the other.

whatever it is, dorn is always depicted as better, up to the point of perturabo (the smartest primarch there is save perhaps magnus) being outwitted by a lowly IF captain.

 

Somehow, the iron warriors only seem to accomplish anything if they are loyalists (vhalen, dantioch). or have IF geneseed :(

 

If that writing was intended to identify with perturabo's hatred, it worked for me. (really, f**k these self-aggrandizing bastards...death to the false emperor!)

 

but damn, what is it with this hero bias of modern fiction? It always has to be the perfects golden boy against the saturday morning cartoon villain.

Where has the sense of tragedy gone?

[Kol Saresk]

You sound surprised, like its something new for something written from an Imperial point of view to espouse the virtues of the Loyalists while magnifying the follies of the Traitors?

[BassWave]

Hero bias? That may be true for the fists, but don't try to apply that blanket statement across all the loyalists.

[Greyall]

Of course it's written on the Imperial side, and sure, the story's tones range from dark grey to black, but it's not a complete case Your Mileage May Vary. The traitors picked the Bad/Worse side, they work for four guys who intend to make the galaxy a charnelhouse. Their reasons go from lunacy to almost legitimate, but they didn't really have any other goal but to kill the ruling guy - well, other than Lorgar, he wants to fuse mankind with daemons...

 

Perturabo lets his brooding get the better of him, it's not unrealistic - it dampens one's talent. If Dorn was the one permanently assigned to sieges and having to divide his Legion, he'd do so with a smile on his lips and a swollen chest to show at every possible occasion.

[Nehekhare]

I'm not surprised anymore, but can we please have our own view that doesn't actually just reinforce the loyalist version?

 

If dorn does the right thing for the wrong reasons, perturabo should do the wrong thing for the right reasons.

 

What is grimdark about the good guys always winning?

[DarKnight]

I agree with Nehekhare as far as Phall goes, it didn't ruin the story, but no Primarch, especially one as competent as Perturabo, should've been outmanuvered by an Astartes.

[Brother Captain Lucian]

Agreed, when I read that part my mind went "golly gee", sure the IF were well prepared. But how in heavens name did Perturabo allow his fleet to go laissez faire in the first place.

[Greyall]

Perturabo assumed the hot-headed Sigismund was in charge and wouldn't be as prepared for an attack, so he designed a lance-like formation with that in mind and, well, plunged too deep. It's a bit jarring, sure, but void combat with this many ships might not be that easy to adapt once such an alpha strike is delivered. He assumed, which is prone to big consequences and, once again, let his hatred take the lead...

[Kol Saresk]

I agree with Nehekhare as far as Phall goes, it didn't ruin the story, but no Primarch, especially one as competent as Perturabo, should've been outmanuvered by an Astartes.

So the Primarch who specializes on ground warfare should be better than the captain renowned for void warfare in a Legion renowned for void warfare because what? Special goodness for being a Primarch? That's like saying Guilliman should never have been ambushed by a Legion renowned for ambushes.

The Primarchs are not infallible. If the Emperor can be taken off guard by an Ork, then a Primarch can be taken off guard by an Astartes. Especially an Astartes who is playing the advantage with a type of warfare he specializes in amongst a Legion renowned for the same specialty.

[DarKnight]

That's the thing Greyall, and to be fair, the Crimson Fist was the first BL story I've enjoyed that hasn't been written by AD-B in a VERY long time, but the mustache twirling was a little bit thick in spots. Perturabo dreadnaughting one of his captains as well as the "underestimating" of an enemy. IMO Primarchs, especially one as logical is he's supposed to be would underestimate an enemy. I know they all have their flaws, but when it comes to warfare, that shouldn't be one of them. Great story regardless.

 

I agree with Nehekhare as far as Phall goes, it didn't ruin the story, but no Primarch, especially one as competent as Perturabo, should've been outmanuvered by an Astartes.

So the Primarch who specializes on ground warfare should be better than the captain renowned for void warfare in a Legion renowned for void warfare because what? Special goodness for being a Primarch? That's like saying Guilliman should never have been ambushed by a Legion renowned for ambushes.
The Primarchs are not infallible. If the Emperor can be taken off guard by an Ork, then a Primarch can be taken off guard by an Astartes. Especially an Astartes who is playing the advantage with a type of warfare he specializes in amongst a Legion renowned for the same specialty.

Yeah, a Primarch should be better in all aspects of warfare than a Astartes, practically and in application, "specialties" be damned. We can agree to disagree though.