Inquisitor Kravin Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I now have a vision of an Alpha Legion parade in front of the other Primarchs that consists of a few hundred marines who march past and then as soon as they are out of sight round the corner leg it around the back of the building to rejoin the back of the parade.Quality counts as much as quantity (otherwise every competitive player would be fielding Imperial Guard conscript armies). I don't believe that any amount of gene tech or implanted memories/knowledge can make these new recruits a match for seasoned vets of the Great Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3641873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Nah. They walk into a teleporter straight back to the beginning. Less time consuming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3641882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Here is a thing that troubles me of B&C, the obsession with numbers, who has the biggest.. d.. ahem legion. Point is, we speak of ASTARTES, of space marines. Every single warrior is a force multiplier which can have his impact multiplied by a hundredfold if he has capable leaders and wargear at his disposal. We speak of Horus Lupercal, THE Warmaster, the greatest mind and leader of the astartes legions and I think there is no dispute here. So every single traitor marine, paired with the sudden effect of betrayal (remember the White Scars who assaulted their brothers or who killed even a Custodian and a group of Istvaan survivors), and with the magistral charisma of Horus and the boons of the Chaos Gods, it is plain that numbers mean something but not everything, hence every traitor marine is much but much more of a force multiplier than a loyalist one. Now fleets and all mean a lot, granted, but you must take in account that there are four divine beings fighting alongside the traitor legions, it is only a matter of time that the reality will unravel and the daemonic legions will appear. It is only a matter of time that the sheer arcane might of Chaos comes forth and it is only a matter of time that the true traitors, those strong enough to have survived the purges, the incessant conflict of the Great Crusade, those united by Horus and loyal only TO Horus will come forward and then, things get dead serious. Numbers, legions, marines, the point is that the leader of the Imperium, the Emperor is locked in his palace fighting a daemonic incursion leaving an Imperium without a strong leadership, while Horus, well he knows that chaos does funny things to an astartes mind and the traitor legions will be around as long as blood flows, but they will not be in there for him. Also numbers, we have three legions which are nigh wiped out and so far only the Thousand Sons had a similar fate for team traitor which also means that somehow the odds are even... The whole point of the Heresy now is not anymore about astartes, the legions are apex predators but soon the Imperial Army will come rolling forth, them and the other orders of the Imperium. What matters now is who can put more human soldiers on the field and here the Imperium has a massive advantage and Horus knows that. When will come to storming the Imperial Palace, the more expendable fodder you have to eat all those fire the better and Dorn is making sure that we speak of billions of soldiers, daemons and war engines will be needed to allow the traitors even a modest chance to scale the ramparts. I think that the Word Bearers have the right of it, for every ship of astartes you need at least three ships of human fodder as support, and that is being conservative. Point is Horus does not have all this mass of warriors hence he has to rely on surprise, ruthlessness and speed to make something out of the Heresy. But Astartes numbers...at this stage of the Horus Heresy are at best a moot point. The side which has more humans under its banner will win, and it has been so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3642286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Da Flash Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Kill the Grand Pooh-Bah. Eliminate even the toughest stain. Is that a Transformers: The animated movie quote I hear? "I have better things to do tonight than die!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3642400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Kill the Grand Pooh-Bah. Eliminate even the toughest stain. Is that a Transformers: The animated movie quote I hear? "I have better things to do tonight than die!" Haha. I was wondering if anybody would recognize it. It's kinda sad that a 1980s cartoon movie designed to sell toys was better than all three of those Michael Bay movies put together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3642616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
drooling blood Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Its not so much they were in a rush as thats how marines operate, hit hard, hit fast, spear tip to the throat. Cut off the head. They didnt have to conquer every world on the way to Terra. Some were already in their pocket. Some might just need a visit to make them change allegiance. As for numbers. Id say the 1000 sons were already 1000 max before the wolves even hit prospero, because of the flesh change. Say -150 because of the company he sent away. 50 marines off visiting other places. Id even say the wolves wernt that many more because they had their own version of the change and being chopped to bits by the world eaters. BA after Terra reduced to 4/5 chapters from 120k Scars, id say maybe 14,000 got to Terra after the Khan sorted them out. The fists well i think they the ace in the hole. 200+ on terra Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Kill the Grand Pooh-Bah. Eliminate even the toughest stain. Is that a Transformers: The animated movie quote I hear? "I have better things to do tonight than die!" Haha. I was wondering if anybody would recognize it. It's kinda sad that a 1980s cartoon movie designed to sell toys was better than all three of those Michael Bay movies put together. Let's not exaggerate too much here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Its not so much they were in a rush as thats how marines operate, hit hard, hit fast, spear tip to the throat. Cut off the head. This is Horus' MO exactly. He wouldn't play it any other way. Kill the Grand Pooh-Bah. Eliminate even the toughest stain. Is that a Transformers: The animated movie quote I hear? "I have better things to do tonight than die!" Haha. I was wondering if anybody would recognize it. It's kinda sad that a 1980s cartoon movie designed to sell toys was better than all three of those Michael Bay movies put together. Let's not exaggerate too much here. Do you deny the combined might of Orson Welles, Eric Idle and Leonard Nimoy?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Its not so much they were in a rush as thats how marines operate, hit hard, hit fast, spear tip to the throat. Cut off the head. They didnt have to conquer every world on the way to Terra. Some were already in their pocket. Some might just need a visit to make them change allegiance. As for numbers. Id say the 1000 sons were already 1000 max before the wolves even hit prospero, because of the flesh change. Say -150 because of the company he sent away. 50 marines off visiting other places. Id even say the wolves wernt that many more because they had their own version of the change and being chopped to bits by the world eaters. BA after Terra reduced to 4/5 chapters from 120k Scars, id say maybe 14,000 got to Terra after the Khan sorted them out. The fists well i think they the ace in the hole. 200+ on terra 1k Sons had one thousand and some change after the Wolves hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 They were left with 1000 sons left which is fitting the legion I thought was around 60000 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Its not so much they were in a rush as thats how marines operate, hit hard, hit fast, spear tip to the throat. Cut off the head. They didnt have to conquer every world on the way to Terra. Some were already in their pocket. Some might just need a visit to make them change allegiance. As for numbers. Id say the 1000 sons were already 1000 max before the wolves even hit prospero, because of the flesh change. Say -150 because of the company he sent away. 50 marines off visiting other places. Id even say the wolves wernt that many more because they had their own version of the change and being chopped to bits by the world eaters. BA after Terra reduced to 4/5 chapters from 120k Scars, id say maybe 14,000 got to Terra after the Khan sorted them out. The fists well i think they the ace in the hole. 200+ on terra 1k Sons had one thousand and some change after the Wolves hit. They were left with 1000 sons left which is fitting the legion I thought was around 60000When A Thousand Sons was written, the KSons were 10,000 pre-Raze. After the Raze, there were 1,000 survivors of the Raze plus whatever garrisons were spread out throughout the galaxy. And the Wolves were roughly at equal strength with the Sons pre-Raze. However, since then the Salamanders have been cited as being the smallest Legion at 80,000(IIRC; its mentioned in Massacre), and according to A D-B, both Legions are being made larger as part of the "bringing in line" of all currently published Heresy fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Its not so much they were in a rush as thats how marines operate, hit hard, hit fast, spear tip to the throat. Cut off the head. They didnt have to conquer every world on the way to Terra. Some were already in their pocket. Some might just need a visit to make them change allegiance. As for numbers. Id say the 1000 sons were already 1000 max before the wolves even hit prospero, because of the flesh change. Say -150 because of the company he sent away. 50 marines off visiting other places. Id even say the wolves wernt that many more because they had their own version of the change and being chopped to bits by the world eaters. BA after Terra reduced to 4/5 chapters from 120k Scars, id say maybe 14,000 got to Terra after the Khan sorted them out. The fists well i think they the ace in the hole. 200+ on terra 1k Sons had one thousand and some change after the Wolves hit. >They were left with 1000 sons left which is fitting the legion I thought was around 60000When A Thousand Sons was written, the KSons were 10,000 pre-Raze. After the Raze, there were 1,000 survivors of the Raze plus whatever garrisons were spread out throughout the galaxy. And the Wolves were roughly at equal strength with the Sons pre-Raze. However, since then the Salamanders have been cited as being the smallest Legion at 80,000(IIRC; its mentioned in Massacre), and according to A D-B, both Legions are being made larger as part of the "bringing in line" of all currently published Heresy fluff. Are the post Raze numbers going to stay the same for the 1k Sons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Don't know. Have to wait and see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/page/2/#findComment-3643738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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