Great Crusade - why the rush

[Inquisitor Kravin]

This thread, http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288968-why-the-rush/, questioned the urgency of Horus's rebellion.

There were good answers there about the delicacy of the balance of factors.

My question is, why was there such a sense of urgency about the Great Crusade? Lorgar was building compliant and productive worlds, Magnus was taking the time to learn from the newly compliant worlds. At the other end of the scale Russ and Angron were laying waste to anything in their path, caring nothing for what would happen afterwards. Lorgar and Magnus were rebuked or criticised for being too slow whilst it seems there was approval for those who advanced the fastest, regardless of what they left in their wake.

Why?

If you are a superhuman immortal who has lived for tens of thousands of years and are building an empire that you intend to rule for tens of thousands of years to come, why does it matter whether the initial conquest takes two hundred years or four hundred years? It seems that if the pace of the crusade had been less intense the Emperor could have spent more time with each of his sons and addressed their concerns, potentially averting the Heresy.

The galaxy is vast but finite. One day he would run out of space to conquer and external enemies to unite his followers in a common cause. The rush of the Crusade seems to work against him here.

A few ideas I have:

1. He sensed that the powers of Chaos were working against him and so the sooner his secular Imperium stamped out religious belief the better.
2. He feared/foresaw an external threat in the material realm such as the rise of a devastating Ork waaaagh that had to be stopped. Like Eldar sent by a Farseer to change the course of events he had to fight his way to Ullanor and triumph there otherwise he would meet an Ork "crusade" coming the other way.
3. The Imperium was like a Ponzi scheme. A realm that big was just too big to ever be stable. Every new world brought to compliance had to be promised that they would benefit from being part of the Imperium which meant more worlds had to be conquered to satisfy the previously conquered ones.
4. His sense or urgency made as little sense as some of his parenting decisions and he was basically a .

What do you think?

[Conn Eremon]

The idea of the Imperium being a Ponzi scheme on a galactic scale amuses the heck out of me.

[Marshal Rohr]

The conquest was more fluid. It took 200 years because thats how fast the Legions were able to go. It wasn't like the Emperor whipped them on, all of the FW books have explained that some conquer and move on, others take their time to stabilize afterwards. But the Primarchs and their legions set the speed, not the Emperor. 

[helterskelter]

 

The conquest was more fluid. It took 200 years because thats how fast the Legions were able to go. It wasn't like the Emperor whipped them on, all of the FW books have explained that some conquer and move on, others take their time to stabilize afterwards. But the Primarchs and their legions set the speed, not the Emperor.

except the emperors dual purpose telling off of the word bearers. go fast. no god. bye bye monarchia. now go fast boy!

[Marshal Rohr]

That isn't really evidence he was pushing everyone onwards, just that the Word Bearers were exceptionally slow. 

[Perrin]

I don't think that there was a sense of urgency, but I think option 1 still applies.

 

He must have known the Chaos Gods were gunning for him after he betrayed them, so the sooner his grip on the galaxy was complete the better shape he would be in to counter any moves they make.

 

Was Magnus hurried along? Lorgar was but that was because of why he was taking so long. Maybe the Emperor suspected the type of knowledge Magnus was wasting time studying and thought that if he made him hurry it up he'd have less time to study things he shouldn't.

[Carach]

would say the need for speed was a requirement when your demigod sons have been stolen and potentially left to all kinds of corruption at the hands of those that ur main aim is to destroy.

 

corruption that was widespread in the galaxy at the time, it seems. 

 

so ye, i suppose it was the long-game plan condensed due to circumstances.

[Relict]

Again, I would attribute the rapid rate of conquest to momentum.

 

Consider: with each new world brought into the Imperial fold, the Imperium gains raw material, fresh recruits for the Imperial Army/Legiones Astartes,  and new manufacturing capabilities (if the world in question is a Forge World). Even given the losses of the Great Crusade, the forces of the Imperium had to be experiencing a net increase for the endeavor to be worth it. 

 

Throughout the history of modern warfare, one of the problems at a conflict's end is what to do with the masses of conscripted soldiers. Demobilization rarely goes smoothly - many German World War I veterans felt slighted and joined paramilitary organizations that caused upheavals in society, for example. 

 

It would be easier for the Imperium to demobilize some of its mortal soldiers and have them settle newly conquered worlds. However, for the legionaries, their entire purpose is warfare. Many Primarchs and their legionaries wondered what would happen to them once the Great Crusade was over. Many feared that they would be turned into glorified policemen. Leman Russ went as far as self-appointing his legion as the "Emperor's Executioners", in part to give it a purpose after the conclusion of the Great Crusade. 

 

Now, having space marines garrison conquered worlds in an attempt at peacekeeping is a poor decision - just look at what happened to the Iron Warriors. The logical alternative was to keep them on the expanding frontiers and have them push ever outwards. And as each legion gained numbers over the course of the Great Crusade (they each left Terra with around 10,000 space marines. By the time of the Horus Heresy, the average legion contained ten times that number, if not more), the rate of conquests grew. 

 

The Primarchs themselves set the pace of conquests. Even the Ultramarines, who refused to leave a conquered world until it has established a system of Imperial government and a modern PDF, had the second-highest number of worlds brought to compliance. Lorgar was rebuked because his Word Bearers (1) took far too long and (2) spent that time converting the masses to the Cult of the Emperor and building cathedrals. The Emperor frowned upon religious shenanigans. 

[SteelPaladin]

I agree that the reason is more along the lines of #1 and #2.

 

Also, the warp was stable for the first time in ages. Maybe he wanted to conquer as much of the galaxy as he could before long distance warp travel became impossible again.

[Legatus]

My question is, why was there such a sense of urgency about the Great Crusade?

Burried deep inside archives on Terra there is an ancient tome, not looked upon by any man for over two decades millennia. This tome, known under the title "The Lost and the Damned" is one of the oldest books describing the early days of the Imperium, nay, even the Emperor himself. It is here you will find answers even the tomes of the Black Library will not provide.

 

This is but a brief excerpt from that tome:

 

"(175) Over the millennia the Emperor watched the human race develop. (...) At times of crisis he would be there, steering the human race along a narrow survival path that he alone could see.

(...)

As the human race prospered the warp became increasingly disturbed so that its flow could no longer sustain the planet as it once had. The New Man was aware of how the extreme sides of the human character were feeding the Chaos Powers. Despite his best efforts to promote peace and harmony, the instinctive values of martial honour, ambition, defiance, and self-satisfaction could never be eradicated.

(176) The Chaos Powers sensed the presence of the New Man and his efforts to curb their own power and growth. Even before they became fully conscious the Chaos Powers recognised the Emperor as their greatest enemy.

(...)

Scientific advances of the third and subsequent millennia AD brought some knowledge of the warp to ordinary humans. Although no-one imagined its true source of power, mankind learned how to travel through the warp and soon the stars were populated with human colonies. The New Man himself was instrumental in these scientific advances. He knew that while humanity remained bound within its own solar system the entire race remained vulnerable to extinction. His appearances during pivotal moments in world history enabled him to direct the course of human progress to some extent. Soon there were human colonies throughout the galaxy.

(177) The birth pangs of Slaanesh made it all the more necessary that humanity progress as quickly as possible. Warp travel became increasingly difficult as the horror-torn dreams of Slaanesh became more tense. (...)

As a result, space travel became almost impossible, and many worlds were isolated for long periods of time. Human society broke apart and Earth was cut off from the rest of the galaxy altogether.

(...)

The whole structure of the warp was affected by the growth of the Chaos Powers, so that everywhere in the galaxy the psychic energies embodied by the Chaos Powers began to corrupt the natural energies of living things. While Earth was cut off by warp storms it was also protected from the malefic influences of Chaos which were already corrupting much of the human population of the galaxy - both in mind and in body.

It was, as the New Man knew, only a temproary respite. Once Slaanesh awoke, the incredible disturbance to the warp would disrupt its already enfeebled flow. After almost fourty thousand years it was time for the New Man to take a direct hand in the future of humanity. It was time for him to become the Emperor.

(...)

Over a hundred years before the waking of Slaanesh, the Emperor sought to establish his rule over the Earth and began to mould its people into a loyal army. He started to plan the re-conquest of the galaxy in anticipation of the dispersal of the warp storms around the planet.

(178) By the time that the warp storms were ended, the Space Marines and other Imperial forces were ready to begin their reconquest of the galaxy. The forces of Chaos were already strong, and many human worlds had been taken over by Chaos Cultists or other aliens.

(...)

With the help of the Primarchs the Great Crusade swept across the galaxy. Humanity rose to the task of rebuilding its ancient heritage, and everywhere the alien oppressor was defeated and driven out. Chaos retreated to its own realms, to the zone of warp-real space overlap such as the Eye of Terror.

(...)

The forces of Chaos were not quite so easily beaten. They whispered to the Primarchs from the warp (...)"

[Raulmichile]

Oh yeah, these books are pure gold. Although most of their gaming content and some fluff is now outdated they still remain two of the best books ever released by GW.

[Clewz]

If you go by what Graham mcneil put in The Outcast Dead the Emperor couldn't see past a certain point in time so was possibly trying to cram everything in

[Sviox]

If you go by what Graham mcneil put in The Outcast Dead the Emperor couldn't see past a certain point in time so was possibly trying to cram everything in

 

Actually, I got the impression that the Emperor did see past that point, but not with certainty. He saw many futures with only slim possibilities of happening. That's why he was interested in that main character's (can't remember the name) vision, i.e. to confirm everything was working towards the one slightly possible future that the Emperor had been planning all along.

 

To answer the original question, I think that since worship of Chaos grows it in power, the Emperor wanted to unite the mankind as soon as possible to stop spread of 'religion', bringing imperial truth everywhere, effectively killing all previous religions and worship of the primordial elements. But he knew (and aimed for) the Heresy to happen, seeing that in order to eventually win against Chaos, his own presence in the warp needed to outgrow Chaos (i.e. being worshiped) and the most efficient way to do it would be the one slightly possible future where he would be bind into the golden throne with all of Imperium united under one religion (and psykers sacrificed in his name etc...). The emperor is perpetual so he merely waits to be reborn, even more powerful than before. Heresy was just a convenient tool for him.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Legatus - good point. I have copies of those books buried somewhere. I must dig them out again.

[TDF]

[naive idealism]The Great Crusade was rushed because the Emperor wanted to save all the poor innocent humans enslaved by aliens and evil psykers.[/naive idealism]