recon0321 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Ok so after reading about the alpha legion it mentions that were created separately from the other legions along with the space wolves and salamanders...so what was tier purpose? We know the wolves were executioners and the alphas were what astartes covert operations... BUT what of the salamanders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Well, we don't know. Why? Because the Wolves only became the Executioners(if they became that at all) only after Russ decided they should be Executioners. According to Betrayal, the original executioners were actually the War Hounds. Not the Wolves, not the Night Lords, not the Iron Warriors, but the War Hounds. And that purpose was lost after Angron started hammering in the Nails. So, we don't know what the XVIII's purpose is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Their purpose? Kill xenos, help conquer the galaxy. People get waaay to hung up on each Legion having some specialist role. They're armies of conquest first and foremost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 As said in the Salamanders Tactics Thread , we could imagine if these 3 Legion were developed apart from the others it was for a purpose. Perhaps we can look at the genetic of the salamanders : strength and resilience. Now as I remember in Deliverance Lost , when the Raven Guard started to study the primarch genetic stuff it was said that there were some xenos stuff in some sample. If yes , it is possible that the Salamanders , SW and AL have xenos genes , and so theBig E wanted to keep an eye on them ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Perhaps it has something to do with Vulkan..... ......being a perpetual? Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 My thoughts exactly, Smasha. A degree of the Primarchs' traits seemed to be shared by his Legionnaires, from physical ones to those of the psyche, including, in some cases, the 'special snowflake traits': Some Raven Guards had the Jedi Mind Trick: Invisibility, just as Corax did. We know at least Sevatar has a degree of foresight, just as Curze does. Of course, he's the only [known] Night Lord who has it, so right now he does not a rule make. I think it has been more or less set that the Wolves have some resistance to the warp's influence (no source, this is from memory). Russ seems to at least have a way to shut down psykers. So it's not really likely to be commonplace among the Legion, but it's definitely not impossible for some Sallies to have inherited Vulkan's trait: maybe by being more resistant, having faster healing abilities or, who knows, coming back... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlight Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I had pondered the special intended purpose of the salamanders and one thing comes to mind would be to securing of the webway. guard duty to ensure safe travel and to keep the daemons from escaping. i may think too hard about these things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Pre-Vulkan Salamanders are often being utilized as 'forlorn hope' kind of units, again strength and resilience (Massacre kinda try to compare Salamanders and Death Guard together) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I had pondered the special intended purpose of the salamanders and one thing comes to mind would be to securing of the webway. guard duty to ensure safe travel and to keep the daemons from escaping. i may think too hard about these things. Don't think you do, mate, the Gatekeeper thing has been repeated enough times as to have some significance in the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Maybe public relations? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Astartes aren't really good for that, even in times of less psycho-conditioning, they're still going to be soldier-children whose growth and knowledge of life was cut-off. Loken was pretty down-to-earth and even he had some hard times adapting to regular human relations. Edit: Although 40K Salamanders are said to hang around their birth cities and visit regularly, to my knowledge. But they're bred for war, their best propaganda is making an Eldar able to look at his own behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 As you see in the Betrayal , allies chart tables , the Salamanders are the space marines who had the better relationship with the others Legions. In Promethean Sun , the Big E said to Vulkan that Vulkan is what the Big E was expecting of his son : to be compasionate . So Vulkan would be a good tool to make the other primarch be less violent with civilian/human (again sorry for my english). So I know that we are speaking of the salamanders before being reunited with Vulkan , but it can be an idea : SW are here to control the other legions by violence. AL are here to control by spy/deceive Sallies are here to control by example/sympathy/brotherhood ... ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Horus was better at that, I'd say. The 'darker' Primarchs would view the Sallies as weak and lacking in the determination department. In the end, Horus' mastery of manipulation was the best way to deal with the 'broken monsters', as the Warmaster himself put it. It still makes some sense, the Sallies would at least be hated by none of the other Legions (I'd say at worst they'd look down on them) and the civilians would either like them or hate them the least (Vulkan would still purge a population, as Promethean Sun showed, if need be). The Emperor's 'Nice Marines' doesn't sound bad, although the Perpetual bit is still biting at the back of my mind, but maybe I'm the one overthinking it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I figure the Salamanders are legion of last resort, when all else has failed the Salamanders resilience and intelligence is used to pulled off some sort of miracle, such as holding back an enemy whilst severely outnumbered (When Vulkan reunites with them) or the Tempest Galleries when they are sent deep underground to pull off something that has never been achieved before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Could be, the Sallies seem to have a knack for keeping cool-headed while charging into hell, if you can imagine that. But there are other 'last resort' Legions, the Fists and Iron Warriors can hold ground like no other; the Death Guard can keep going while suffering tremendous casualties; the World Eaters (if pointed in the right direction) will be devastating; the Wolves, too, are incredibly determined and seem to mix individual recklessness and collective cool-headedness pretty well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I agree with you Greyall . Perhaps the true reason is not the salamanders. But a Legion with such a special Primarch at their head ... In Prospero Burn or the First Heretic , there was a discusion about the true role of the primarch/Legion : executionner , praetorian , heir... For a long time I was thinking that the true heir of the Emperor should be Horus or Roboute... But after reading Promethean Sun and Vulkan Lives I mostly think about Vulkan... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3642946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeyray Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I agree with you Greyall . Perhaps the true reason is not the salamanders. But a Legion with such a special Primarch at their head ... In Prospero Burn or the First Heretic , there was a discusion about the true role of the primarch/Legion : executionner , praetorian , heir... For a long time I was thinking that the true heir of the Emperor should be Horus or Roboute... But after reading Promethean Sun and Vulkan Lives I mostly think about Vulkan... I see it that Roboute would be the Bismarck, power through politics with Vulkan as the figurehead Monarch like William I. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Lol Joeyray yes it could be. But I see Vulkan as true heir of the Imperium because of his most special ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Aye, Vulkan's place isn't really as a ruler, Dorn or Guilliman are better suited for that. Vulkan is a field general, the best a population 'visited' by the Imperium can hope for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 We know at least Sevatar has a degree of foresight, just as Curze does. Of course, he's the only [known] Night Lord who has it, so right now he does not a rule make.Don't forget Talos and the bit in the IA article and Void Stalker where it said all of the Legion's psykers had foresight to one extent or another. At most they could see the deaths of those around them, with the exception of the Prophet. I think it has been more or less set that the Wolves have some resistance to the warp's influence (no source, this is from memory). Russ seems to at least have a way to shut down psykers. That's because there is no source. The Wolves have the same resistance to the warp Apothecary Talos and Commissar-General Gaunt had; their will. If that will falters, then you get Wolves like those you read about in the 4th Edition CSM Codex who slew their own brothers and joined the Red Corsairs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeyray Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 The idea of imperial politics and power interests me and this kind of speculation perks me up, I always pondered how would Vulkan have handled the Interex rather than Horus or the first planet in Horus Rising with the false "Emperor" that killed Hastur. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Yep Greyall Vulkan is not a ruler (not as good as Rob ) but he is a man of duty. And if you are athe Big E , and if you look for an heir with no ambition , and if you look for someone who can rule at your place for a loooooong time (during this time you can do your experience in your lab )...so it you look for this...Vulkan seems a pretty good choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Keep in mind that the sallies had world-eater levels of control issues until Vulkan... tempered them into the perfect little obsidian beads they are now. Given Vulkan's gift and the salamander aptitude in assymetrical combat, we can deduce that the sallies were meant to be the final Astartes force for the imperium. Yes, the alpha legion were the final, optimal configuration and all that, but even the twins and Russ would eventually fall and die out in the millennia to come, leaving Vulkan and his legion as the final 'gatekeepers' of the galaxy-spanning imperium, living amongst its populace and always 'the Phoenix to rise out of the ashes of war and triumph once more'. Vulkan's body and legion are invincible. So Curze killed Vulkan's mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I reckon Vulkan is the "good cop" :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 @Kol: Right, forgot about Talos. So the NL seem to confirm the 'special traits' theory a bit more. On the Wolves, said resistance seems to be related to the Wulfen Curse, but aye, it's shoddy ground. @Fission: Agreed, Vulkan is as reliable as they get. The idea of imperial politics and power interests me and this kind of speculation perks me up, I always pondered how would Vulkan have handled the Interex rather than Horus or the first planet in Horus Rising with the false "Emperor" that killed Hastur. On both those matters I think Vulkan would've done almost exactly the same. Really, what could Horus have done if he knew nothing about the stolen dagger? He defended himself and, being a Primarch, that amounted to kicking much Intera**. Same thing with Sejanus' killers, Horus did his job and avenged his son, nothing wrong with that. He could've lanced the planet to oblivion and no one would've made a fuss.Vulkan, I think, wouldn't have been more restrained. He wasn't exactly a pacifist, given enough reason he'd drop the hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289051-salamanders-purpose/#findComment-3643195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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