Dealing with flyers

[Baulder]

Just wondered if anyone has any advice for dealing with flyers. I find that I go up against them quite often but have little in the way of dealing with them. Tend to run a quad gun in case but it doesn't seem to get the job done since it seems that every flyer under the sun takes some sort of saving throw. Just trying to form a game plan for an upcoming tournament.

 

Do ppl often go for a prescience/LF combo to deal with them? or is it worth ignoring them? Additionally, not having any flyers of my own, I'm guessing they come in different flavour just like the tanks. So if it is a transport is it reasonably safe to ignore it and just focus on the team that jump out?

 

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but my quad gun has not once taken down a flyer. Even when I've been shooting at it over a couple of turns.

 

On a side note my mate does this little trick with flying in, dropping out some necrons with a 2* armour save at the front, and then toasting my unit with some bastard ap2 flamer weapon. I cannot figure how to deal with then, other than get luck with the div rolls (for the 4+ inv) and then be able to predict where he will attack, needless to say I cannot get by on luck alone.

[Vash113]

Interceptor is useful for dealing with surprise transports and the Quad Gun helps. But if that is not enough you could consider taking Codex: Space Marines allies and grabbing one of the AA tanks or a squad of Devastators armed with missile launchers and skyfire. Alternately taking a Stormwing Formation gives you a Stormraven and two Stormtalon gunships, a pretty solid core of air firepower.

 

As for flying transports they are not really good to ignore. As you've found out with the Necron flyers just because it has a transport capacity doesn't mean it is not also heavily armed. The Stormraven Gunship and Valkyrie are good examples of this.

 

However if you face only a single flyer then it may not be a high enough value target to devote too much attention to it. Rather other things should be shot/killed first before attention is then turned to the flyer.

[Baulder]

not a big allies fan tbh, but it is something I'll look into for the future (wondering if the scions will get some AA, since I reckon they'd make a good wolfy allies). Though I guess that is why I don't have many options available to me. Since the points of the tournament is 1750 I'm expecting to see at least 1 flyer per table so I guess I'll just have to manage them on a case by case basis.

 

On a side note can I shoot the flyer transport before the unit gets out. My mate said that he could fly in then disembark then I had to choose who to shoot (the unit or the flyer) which to me seems odd since you'd think if you're intercepting a flyer you'd do it as it was moving towards you, not as soon as they have set up shop and taken the time to disembark. 

[Vash113]

not a big allies fan tbh, but it is something I'll look into for the future (wondering if the scions will get some AA, since I reckon they'd make a good wolfy allies). Though I guess that is why I don't have many options available to me. Since the points of the tournament is 1750 I'm expecting to see at least 1 flyer per table so I guess I'll just have to manage them on a case by case basis.

 

Do you not like the allies rules or the fluff of mixing forces? If it's just fluff then I'd simply recommend modeling and painting the units as Space Wolves. As for the Imperial Guard they are getting AA in the form of the Hydra anti-aircraft tank which will most likely be available in squadrons for plenty of AA goodness.

 

On a side note can I shoot the flyer transport before the unit gets out. My mate said that he could fly in then disembark then I had to choose who to shoot (the unit or the flyer) which to me seems odd since you'd think if you're intercepting a flyer you'd do it as it was moving towards you, not as soon as they have set up shop and taken the time to disembark. 

 

According to the Interceptor rule the shooting attack is made at the end of the enemy movement phase so yes your opponent can arrive and then disembark the unit. Against Necrons it's not exactly that critical as you can destroy the transport and the transported unit is unaffected since it is not actually inside the transport and the unit simply enters ongoing reserves.

[alpro]

I find that depending on your list and your opponents flyers i try and ignore them.

 

I play full drop pods, so i take a :cuss load of wounds from heldrakes for a turn if he comes in on turn 2 and if not im usually in combat.

 

I take arjac rockfist and hes taken 1 or 2 flyers down with his 6" hammer range!

[Baulder]

ye vash it is just a fluffy thing for the wolves. Cant really find an ally that i'd like to collect (tho I'm leaning heavily towards the new IG/scions) to go with the wolves. I dont like the idea of running wolves with a SM army that they wouldnt normally work with (plus not sure I want to work on another marine army atm, just for the sake of boredom paining PA) and def not with something like tau. That said I am happy to ally my eldar to stuff and it makes for an interesting dynamic to the game.

[DanPesci]

do flyers not have to go into hover mode or something to disembark troops - i didnt think they could do that on the turn they arrive? (I dont run any flyers so dont know the rules for them that well) - or is that a necron flyer specific ability that they dont need to do that?

[Baulder]

well from my understanding "scotty" beams them down so dunno if they would need to hover for that

[Valerian]

I find that depending on your list and your opponents flyers i try and ignore them.

 

I play full drop pods, so i take a :cuss load of wounds from heldrakes for a turn if he comes in on turn 2 and if not im usually in combat.

 

I take arjac rockfist and hes taken 1 or 2 flyers down with his 6" hammer range!

 

That's an excellent point.  Not always, but sometimes flyers are just a distraction.  If they are an annoyance, but really not capable of preventing you from accomplishing your mission objectives, then the best thing to do is often just to ignore them.  You really only need to deal with them if they can, in fact, win the game for your opponent.  Unfortunately, in those situations, we have very little capability organic to our codex to deal with that, and have to resort to either Fortifications or Allies.

 

V

[Vash113]

ye vash it is just a fluffy thing for the wolves. Cant really find an ally that i'd like to collect (tho I'm leaning heavily towards the new IG/scions) to go with the wolves. I dont like the idea of running wolves with a SM army that they wouldnt normally work with (plus not sure I want to work on another marine army atm, just for the sake of boredom paining PA) and def not with something like tau. That said I am happy to ally my eldar to stuff and it makes for an interesting dynamic to the game.

 

As I've been saying in other threads recently allies do not have to be modeled or painted as a different force but can instead be made up to be simply unorthodox elements of your own primary force. Death Company to represent Wulfen for instance. Fluff wise the ally detachment can be made to simply be an element of your own army rather than a second force of space marines that just happened to be fighting alongside you today.

[Vash113]

 

 

That's an excellent point.  Not always, but sometimes flyers are just a distraction.  If they are an annoyance, but really not capable of preventing you from accomplishing your mission objectives, then the best thing to do is often just to ignore them.  You really only need to deal with them if they can, in fact, win the game for your opponent.  Unfortunately, in those situations, we have very little capability organic to our codex to deal with that, and have to resort to either Fortifications or Allies.

 

V

 

Just to add flyers are not the only distractions out there. A single Stormraven makes a great distraction, it doesn't have that much firepower or killyness but will likely draw a lot of fire. Likewise I find Land Raiders and Terminators also draw a disproportionate amount of attention from a foe. Whether those units are worth points wise or killyness wise to justify that attention I often find opponents will throw nearly their entire army into getting rid of a Land Raider or squad of Terminators leaving the rest of my force free to take them apart at their leisure. It is even more amusing when those fire magnet units survive and continue to stick around. My Imperial Fists Land Raider Crusader has a nasty habit of soaking up a lot of damage, it rarely ever kills anything, but it is rarely destroyed either despite always getting a lot of attention from the enemy guns.

[Grey Mage]

A divination rune priest goes a long way by twin-linking a LF squads guns. Its probably the best in-codex option we have.

Theres also the TL-autocannon dread, or "Rifleman" who needs no such support, and acts as his own mobile quad-gun.

And of course, most fortifications can attach a quadgun or icarus to take down incoming flyers.

[Grimtooth]

A divination rune priest goes a long way by twin-linking a LF squads guns. Its probably the best in-codex option we have.

 

Theres also the TL-autocannon dread, or "Rifleman" who needs no such support, and acts as his own mobile quad-gun.

 

And of course, most fortifications can attach a quadgun or icarus to take down incoming flyers.

Add twn-lnked asscan Razorbacks to mobile quad gun options.

[Sohail187]

I also felt that i did not want to get a allied detachment as i like to keep it all wolfy when dealing with flyers. Your best options which provides you skyfire and interceptor is the hyperios defence platforms. Now you might look on the forgeworld side and they are £21 each!, however you can custom build 3 for about £1 each. Just get a terminator base and use launchers from speeders or something. 

 

3 STR 8 missiles skyfire interceptor also twin linked vs air is a nice cheap option to make your opponent think twice about where he brings his flyer on. Now ill be honest, they have never done that well..... (for example never blown anything up with interceptor) however causing they do just enough.

[Baulder]

So going by my current tournament list, I'd say I've got these options (prob in this order that I would likely use them);

 

Quad gun,

Razor (TL-AC),

LFs with div (possibly split firing),

GH squad sitting by a sky-fire nexus.

 

That isn't too bad really. Guess the take home message though is to establish whether the flyer coming on to the board is going to win the game for my opponent. Then reply with a proportionate response. 

[skeletoro]

Another option is vengeance weapons batteries with quad Icarus lascannons. 75 points each and only BS 2 (20/36 chance to hit with twin linked, compared with 27/36 for Hyperion weapons platforms - though Hyperion is less accurate when making interceptor shots vs drop podders!), but on the other hand you're firing strength 9 and ap 2 and are rocking true twin-linked on those 2 shots rather than mere heat seeker. And it uses a fortification slot rather than heavy support which may be preferable for some.