Long Fangs - Plasma or Lasma?

[tjdudey]

Hi everyone,

 

Fairly new to the game, so I'm trying to get my head round some of it's nuances.

 

Is there a definite advantage (other than the 5 point cost difference) to make Plasma worth the risk of wounding on a 1??

 

I cant see the advantage of Plasma over Lascannons when it comes to long fangs, but lots of people seem to recommend them?

 

I always run Lascannons, but would be interested to know other opinions?

[Vash113]

Well honestly I rarely, if ever, take Lascannons or Plasma Cannons on my heavy support squads, be they Devastators, Havocs or Long Fangs. It's generally cheaper and more flexible to run Missile Launchers or occasionally Heavy Bolters.

 

As for why the Plasma Cannon is superior that's easy, it's a blast weapon. The lascannon will only ever kill one target whilst a Plasma Cannon fired at a recently teleported squad of Terminators has the capacity to wipe out the entire 5 man squad in one shot. The added risk is minimized by the greater capacity to eliminate infantry. Against vehicles the blast is irrelevant but against heavy infantry and MEQs it is devastating.

[tjdudey]

Well honestly I rarely, if ever, take Lascannons or Plasma Cannons on my heavy support squads, be they Devastators, Havocs or Long Fangs. It's generally cheaper and more flexible to run Missile Launchers or occasionally Heavy Bolters.

As for why the Plasma Cannon is superior that's easy, it's a blast weapon. The lascannon will only ever kill one target whilst a Plasma Cannon fired at a recently teleported squad of Terminators has the capacity to wipe out the entire 5 man squad in one shot. The added risk is minimized by the greater capacity to eliminate infantry. Against vehicles the blast is irrelevant but against heavy infantry and MEQs it is devastating.

WOW

I have studied my codex over and over, cover to cover, and never noticed that plasma cannons are a blast weapon...that changes everything.

I feel like such a dunce.

LOL

[tjdudey]

I forgot to mention, that the reason I take Lascannons is that one of my regular opponents is a Monolith spam Necron scumbag...lol

 

I need the strength 9 to have a better chance to Pen his Armor 14

 

Tom

[DanPesci]

3 wolf guard, in a drop pod, each with 2x combi melta ;) bye bye monolith

[Valerian]

As for why the Plasma Cannon is superior that's easy, it's a blast weapon. The lascannon will only ever kill one target whilst a Plasma Cannon fired at a recently teleported squad of Terminators has the capacity to wipe out the entire 5 man squad in one shot. The added risk is minimized by the greater capacity to eliminate infantry. Against vehicles the blast is irrelevant but against heavy infantry and MEQs it is devastating.

 

I love Plasma Cannon, and two each in my two Long Fangs packs.  In one particular 5e game, a bold Blood Angels player dropped a squad of 5 Sanguinary Guard with attached Sanguinary Priest in front of my "vulnerable" Long Fangs; one 'hit' from a Plasma Cannon blast vaporized the entire unit.  That netted me around 300 points of the enemy force with a single shot, which was a pretty big chunk of his force.

 

If your enemy uses a lot of Elite infantry (2+ and 3+ Armour), then Plasma Cannon are terrific; nothing else really compares.  Sure, there is the risk of an Overheat, but you still get your Armour Save to avoid taking a Wound and removing the model, so the likelihood of killing yourself is only 1/18 for each shot you take.  On the other hand, rolling a 'hit' on you scatter dice is a 1/3 chance, and you get to place the blast marker as you see fit (covering portions of the most bases, therefore affecting the most enemy models.  I love 'em.

 

Now, that being said, I've got one Lascannon in each of the two Long Fangs packs, too - as you said, sometimes you need the Strength 9 shot to destroy a more highly armored target.

 

V

[Grey Mage]

I usually run my LFs with 2xLascannon and 2xML, but I do have a setup with a pair of plasmacannons and a pair of lascannons available... needed it when the DA book came out.

[skeletoro]

If you are willing to go the FW route, rapier laser destroyer weapons platforms are great. A full unit has 6 marines, 3 platforms (toughness 7 and 2 wounds, making the unit as a whole quite durable), and each platform is twin-linked and ordnance, making it approximately as powerful as a pair of lascannons. Perhaps the biggest limitation is range, as well as the high cost of the models, but it is a pretty sweet option. You could even paint them up just like a long fangs pack (though they'd lack counterattack and ld9).

[Small Far Away]

Hail Brothers!

I was reading through the BRB, and I noticed that Gets Hot! only applies on re-rolls in the case of weapons that can re-roll their to-hits.

So, my thought was to have a naked Rune Priest with Prescience sitting with a full squad of Long Fangs, all with plasma cannon, sitting in a ruin someplace taring infantry apart.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Quixus]

You have not read the whole rule for Gets Hot:

GETS HOT AND WEAPONS THAT DO NOT ROLL TO HIT

Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing. On a 2+, the shot is resolved as normal. For each roll of a l, the weapon Gets Hot; the firing model suffers a Wound (armour saves or invulnerable saves can be taken) and that shot is not fired. A vehicle instead suffers a glancing hit on a further roll of a 1 ,2 or 3 each time the weapon Gets Hot.

[Reichfaust]

Quixis is correct, however;

 

 

 

GETS HOT AND RE-ROLLS
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (Including because of BS 6+ or Twin-Linked), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.

 

So basically the Rune Priest gives them a nice double bonus in that you can re-roll both the scatter dice and the Gets Hot! dice thanks to prescience. So overall it's not a terrible idea--it's expensive, certainly; but it certainly makes them that much more reliable as a firebase. If you're running such a costly unit of Long Fangs I would suggest putting a naked TDA Wolf Guard Pack Leader in the front of the squad to soak up fire with his 2+ save.

[Small Far Away]

It's a totally silly idea as far as consistency is concerned, but I thought it might be interesting to see if there are more creative ways of playing Long Fangs other than basing them around missile launchers.

[Reichfaust]

It's silly that we have all these cool options for our 5-weapon strong Long Fang teams and yet Missiles are touted as the only way to play them! Damn the points, I wanna see my super-human über-Vikings lugging around Laser cannons so large it takes a 2-man team for regular men to field them! I love my Plasma cannon Long Fangs ruleswise, and I'm quite proud of my models too--I'll edit this post with a pic when I get home from the office

EDIT: Found an in-progress shot from my email that gives you the basic idea...

http://i.imgur.com/TYNOpOe.png

[Small Far Away]

I've grown so attached to my lascannon guys that I'm really curious as to how else these guys could be run.

 

I mean, I can understand the versatility of missile launchers, but I do think that something with plasma could be quite effective too, just a little more specific. 

 

Also, lovin' the model

[Reichfaust]

I've grown so attached to my lascannon guys that I'm really curious as to how else these guys could be run.

 

I mean, I can understand the versatility of missile launchers, but I do think that something with plasma could be quite effective too, just a little more specific. 

 

Also, lovin' the model

 

Thanks! Converted 5 of them using GK Psilencer arms and Sentinel Plasma cannons, I really like the underslung look.

 

Funnily enough, Lascannons are the only weapon loadout I don't have a full squad of Long Fangs built with. I do have a couple though, to add a bit of punch to a Missile squad when I can spare the points. 

 

And as anyone who has ever played against a Leman Russ Executioner will tell you, 5 Plasma templates raining down on you can spell ruination for a marine squadron. Last time I ran them with a Divination Rune Priest I lost count of how many Marines and Termies they took out. Definitely worth a test play!

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I've been know to throw Logan and a TDARP into a squad to plasma toting Long Fangs and let them roam around the table rerolling and frying enemies!!

 

End of Line

[Small Far Away]

So, are we in a rough agreement that plasma isn't even all that bad?

[Valerian]

++I've merged these two topics together, since they both were covering aspects of Plasma Cannon Long Fangs, and threatened to cover much of the same ground.++

 

Valerian

[Grimtooth]

I run my Long Fangs all types of ways with the exception of multi-meltas. The tactic of running a unit with Logan in a drop pod is just too suicidal for me to think Long Fangs would take part in it.

 

In this case, synergy is important with how you run them. Here are a couple of examples;

 

MLx2, LCx3, WGTDA w/CML, Razorback w/twn-lnked LC

 

All 48 inch range, 4 missiles and 4 LC a turn with splitfire if needed and rerolls if with a prescience rune priest.

 

HBx2, PCx3, Razorback w/twn-lnked HB

 

All 36 inch range, 9 HB shots and 3 PC blast templates a turn with splitfire and rerolls if with a prescience rune priest.

[Small Far Away]

Actually, that raises a good point: are heavy bolters that bad? I mean, if you play against a lot of infantry based armies and you've got a Rune Priest... 

[Grey Mage]

Whats the Rune Priest for?

Honestly I dont take them on LFs because if I wanted to put out alot of S5 AP4 shots Id just toss down a whirlwind for cheaper, and enjoy firing from out of LOS. Theyre not bad, but not an infantry weapon for me- to many tanks etc where I can get them cheaper, easier, and leave the LFs for truely heavy support duties.

[DanPesci]

Ive run heavy bolter long fangs lots of times as they're cheap, and lots of dice is always fun. Ive found them to be very effective against all sorts on infantry, even power armour and TDA, as the sheer weight of hits/wounds causes failed armour saves - but that may just be due to particularly good dice in a few games.

 

If i run them these days i sometimes run 3xHb 2xPC so that the HB are essentially 'cheap' ways to shield those plasma cannons, that can also put out a few more wounds themselves (whilst also being handy against light armour - speeders, light transport etc).

 

As grey mage says though, its probably actually more efficient taking a whirlwind than full HB squad for anti-light-infantry duty, and leave the long fangs with heavier weapons for taking out tanks/elites.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I run a pack exactly like Dan mentioned. HB in the front throwing down shot while the PC guys sear little circles into my enemies!!

 

I agree with Ramses opening statement, both fluff and effectiveness wise. But I keep the high point unit towards the back, or possibly behind an Aegis. This way your relentless - tank hunting unit of awesome isn't running suicide missions for absolutely no good reason.

 

Whirlwinds are indeed cheaper, but HB look cooler!! ;)

 

End of Line

[spjaco]

What I tend to do is run my Long Fangs in a three/two split.  Three Plasma Cannons backed up by two Lascannons.  I will occasionally run three or four missile launchers with one or two heavy bolters or Lascannons.  It tends to be whatever mood I am in when I make the squad and what weapons systerms I have available.  Lately I tend to make them the way I like and think is appropriate for Space Wolves as opposed to what is "Table Legal."  Why?  Because I like the modeling and painting more than the actual gaming aspect.  Too many UBER players out there.  I like a campaign that is more story driven.

[d@n]

i prefer missile launchers. preds are better  platforms for laser cannons and heavy bolters. multi meltas are a one trick pony and not a very good one for long fangs.  plasma cannons are alright but i would rather put the extra points into the super cheap plasma and combi plasmas we get in grey hunters and wolf guard packs. a plasma cannon, in my experiance does any more wounds then a rapid firing plasma gun.