Preheresy dark angels vs ultramarines

[HaSY]

If both Legions were to fight each other, who will win?

I think Lion will win given his greater skill at arms and a better tactician (imaginative tactician as described) (although Guilliman is obviously a greater strategist and will react better to any Dark Angel's attack. 

While the average legionary quality from both Legions are of same quality, Guilliman's one are encouraged to think and theorise and practise and perform, meaning that Ultramarines are encouraged to be more initiative.

[Legatus]

I wouldn't say that either has an immediate advantage as a fighter or tactician. Both are praised for their tactical skill, neither is mainly known as an awesome fighter (like Russ or Angron), but have impressive skill if you look closer.

 

The glaring issue would obviously be the two and a half times a regular Legion's strength of the Ultramarines.

[Grotsmasha]

I wouldn't say that either has an immediate advantage as a fighter or tactician. Both are praised for their tactical skill, neither is mainly known as an awesome fighter (like Russ or Angron), but have impressive skill if you look closer.

 

The glaring issue would obviously be the two and a half times a regular Legion's strength of the Ultramarines.

 

The size of the Legions is only a glaring issue if the DA were to take on the Ultra's immediately prior to The Heresy, if this PRE-HERESY fight was to take place at a time when the Legions were of comparable size, it really would be anyone's guess.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Augustus]

I wouldn't say that either has an immediate advantage as a fighter or tactician. Both are praised for their tactical skill, neither is mainly known as an awesome fighter (like Russ or Angron), but have impressive skill if you look closer.

 

The glaring issue would obviously be the two and a half times a regular Legion's strength of the Ultramarines.

Yet the Lion and Russ were considered an equal match.

 

Grots,

There was still ample time for the the Ultramarines to outstrip them based on the order they were found.

[Týr]

It believe it is becoming established that the Legions were each other's equal. They had different prefered theatres of war and different strengths. But in the end if two Legions went to war it is almost always mutally assured destruction.

On average no Astartes from Legion X is better than Astartes from Legion Y. No two legions could meet head on without both being destoyed.

 

That's why if a Legion want to win over another Legion it has to unbalance the fight.

It could be excessive amounts of advantage in numbers as we saw Horus did on Isstvan V.

Or use complete surprise and attack while the enemy is idle as during Calth and so on.

 

So your question isn't really that interesting (no offense). The short answer to it would be the Legion that brings most men and have a lucky day will win.

 

But in generel I really dislike who will win threads. No can say and even if X won over Y it wouldn't really say anything about anyone.

[Greyall]

So many ways this could go, Army vs Army discussions are even more subjective than Character vs Character.

 

But the Lion was indeed considered and shown to have tremendous martial skills - also, he managed to sneak up on Curze himself...

 

Guilliman, as well, has at least two accounts of him being in the top 5 tier in terms of martial prowess and has performed well on that front.

 

The Ultramarines are a very hard nut to crack in terms of strategy, they can adapt to pretty much any enemy approach. That being said, the Angels specialized Wings might make a difference. I wouldn't risk guessing any outcome.

[HaSY]

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

Thanks for discussing.

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

[depthcharge12]

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

Thanks for discussing.

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

Chickenwing

[deathspectersgt7]

 

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

Thanks for discussing.

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

Chickenwing

Don"t Forget the Buffalo Wing.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

Thanks for discussing.

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

 

Chickenwing

Don"t Forget the Buffalo Wing.

You have to be inner circle to know about those guys

[Týr]

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

Thanks for discussing.

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

Chickenwing

Don"t Forget the Buffalo Wing.

You have to be inner circle to know about those guys

 

So in truth Leman Russ actually attacked the Lion because he was hungry and the Lion wouldn't give him any hot wings?

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

Thanks for discussing.

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

 

Chickenwing

Don"t Forget the Buffalo Wing.

You have to be inner circle to know about those guys

 

So in truth Leman Russ actually attacked the Lion because he was hungry and the Lion wouldn't give him any hot wings?

 

Nothing goes better with Mjod then buffalo wings.

[helterskelter]

Logistics. Come on the lion gives all his goodies to the first guy to suspiciously say yes to supporting him (the traitorous cur! ) at least roboute pooled his resources, yes that got him a mullering at calth but logistics pulled through in the end. And getting all of II and XI stuff. Theoretical.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Logistics. Come on the lion gives all his goodies to the first guy to suspiciously say yes to supporting him (the traitorous cur! ) at least roboute pooled his resources, yes that got him a mullering at calth but logistics pulled through in the end. And getting all of II and XI stuff. Theoretical.

Assuming the Wolves didn't destroy it all. :P

[helterskelter]

 

 

Logistics. Come on the lion gives all his goodies to the first guy to suspiciously say yes to supporting him (the traitorous cur! ) at least roboute pooled his resources, yes that got him a mullering at calth but logistics pulled through in the end. And getting all of II and XI stuff. Theoretical.

Assuming the Wolves didn't destroy it all. :P

They can't have destroyed everything, still finding bits of thousand son here snd there, so they arent that thorough :D

[HaSY]

Dang..I could have some buffalo wings lol

I prefer black Dark Angels than green/noob/newbie green of Dark Angels

Anyway, what do you guys expect from Forge World about Dark Angels? Their rules, unique rules, rite of war?  

[depthcharge12]

Dang..I could have some buffalo wings lol

I prefer black Dark Angels than green/noob/newbie green of Dark Angels

Anyway, what do you guys expect from Forge World about Dark Angels? Their rules, unique rules, rite of war?  

I'm building up my Heresy Dark Angels army in anticipation (see link below), mainly with the thought of tactical flexibility in mind with true grit marines and lots of volkite and other esoteric/older weaponry.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285622-sol-gambit-hh-dark-angels-models-updated-pg2/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3644101

 

 

The Dark Angels are supposed to be very good strategans on the fly and carry lots of war gear as befitting the first legion to be made. Quite a few veterans for the same reason, but the organization is wonky and hard to discern. A little birdy was telling me that it is very hard to represent them on the table top because they don't have very much about their style written so far. However, we have a good likelyhood of seeing the 6 separate "Wings" to choose from.

 

 

I think it would be great for the DAs to have six different rites of war to represent these groups :D but that's just me

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

 

Thanks for discussing.

 

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

 

Where were the Storm and Iron wings mentioned?

[HaSY]

 

Yeah, I understand that it is more subjective than character vs characters. 

 

Thanks for discussing.

 

So for 6 wings of Dark Angels are : Dread, Death, Storm, Iron, Raven, what else?

 

Where were the Storm and Iron wings mentioned?

Stormwing is from Unremembered Empire while Ironwing I think is more of older fluff.

[HaSY]

I am actually Alpha Legion fan...but Dark Angels's secrecy and their awesome fluff and history makes me tempted to start one. They definitely field more unique and esoteric weaponry and should have higher numbers of veterans and dreadnoughts in their number.

Another trait is that I think Dark Angels love power swords given their knightly theme.

6 wings to show they are master of all arms, supposedly they are very good in every type of warfare.

[Conn Eremon]

I thought Unremembered Empire had the Dreadwing? Hm.

[HaSY]

yeap Stormwing and Dreadwing from there too