Rank the legions by territory added during the Great Crusade

[Marshal Rohr]

The FW books make the Death Guard out to be a Legion that was used to climate threats that couldn't be brought into the fold, like xenos and such. It confuses the hell out of me because their background makes them seem like a Legion that was involved in as many sieges as the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists. Maybe they were one of the 'secret weapon' legions like the Thousand Sons.

[DuskRaider]

That's because they're the best Legion. Duh.

[Hyaenidae]

That's because they're the best Legion. Duh.

 

Pardon me, sir. The Warmaster and his Legion would like a word with you.  

[Conn Eremon]

The FW books make the Death Guard out to be a Legion that was used to climate threats that couldn't be brought into the fold, like xenos and such. It confuses the hell out of me because their background makes them seem like a Legion that was involved in as many sieges as the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists. Maybe they were one of the 'secret weapon' legions like the Thousand Sons.

Both certainly fit, at least in my eyes. The Death Guard found their home on the battlefields of death worlds, xenos home worlds, and the like. Worlds you would expect to see a lot of sieges on.

 

But then, that's also why they wouldn't be seen as very high on this list, depending on how you define territory gained. The Death Guard were mostly for taking out worlds. Worlds that would never have been Imperial, and would have been a thorn in their side if left alone.

 

But there are a lot of ways in which you can define adding territory that is more than adding worlds to the Imperial fold. Assaulting and burning linchpin xenos worlds can have as large an impact on increasing Imperial territory as convincing a minor human empire to surrender and assimilate.

[DuskRaider]

Bah, Horus needed the XIVth around because the rest of the Traitors were nutters. They were the only reasonable Legion (unless Graham McNeil writes them apparently).

[Conn Eremon]

I wouldn't call "I'm going to betray the Emperor and the Imperium because the other Traitors stand for everything I hate most in the galaxy" as 'reasonable.'

[Nehekhare]

from the 6th Edition Rulebook (p. 187)

 

 

"The Ultramarines are an exemplary Chapter - arguably the purest, noblest and most honoured of their legendary kind.

 

This was very informative, thank you. I see where the notion comes from and while bias is still possible, I must say that the decision to include it in the brb was a worse one than to leave it out of the most recent codex. I think the highlighted phrase is the most important to remember.

[DuskRaider]

I wouldn't call "I'm going to betray the Emperor and the Imperium because the other Traitors stand for everything I hate most in the galaxy" as 'reasonable.'

Says you. They made the right choice, just went about it wrong.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

 

 

 

Everything I've heard is that the Wolves and Sons were equal strength, and that the numbers presented in A Thousand Sons were going to be retconned into being larger since the Salamanders are directly stated to be the smallest Legion and numbering quite a bit more than ten thousand. At least 40,000 IIRC.

"These figures would tally with commonly held estimates of a total active strength for the Salamanders Legion at the end of the Great Crusade of approximately 89,000 Legiones Astartes, placing them as among the smallest overall of the Legions in manpower." p 121, Massacre

 

Among the smallest, not the smallest. Though 40,000 would still be acceptable, that said.

 

And I guess, now that I am reading that quote again, that there actually has been an additional retcon of Legion numbers. Before, 10k was the average size. Then, 100k was. Now, 100k is considered small, with a Legion that is nearly that considered to be among the smallest.

 

Edit: Though interestingly, they kept the original figure of total Salamander survivors multiplied by a factor of ten (7k rather than 700), so it isn't as much a retcon and more a shift of averages.

 

Ah. Still, if "among the smallest" is 89,000, then 10,000 must be minuscule. So that would seem to go along with this post by A D-B.

 

 

 

Cheers guys this makes it a little bit more reasonable than I imagined, I really had the impression that they were down to the last few gunslingers. This would make more sense I'd kind of forgotten how clever they are and also that they did'nt degenerate like the EC, WB, WE and DG. Thanks for clearing that up.

Basically, take any numbers in any Horus Heresy novel before The First Heretic, (and Prospero Burns, which was written before TFH) and times the numbers by 10. Remember as well that a lot of the Thousand Sons weren't on Prospero at the time.

 

tl;dr -- Thousands and thousands.

 

Looks like there was a statement that outright states a Legion was the smallest. The Raven Guard, after the battle that saw the split between Horus and Corax before the Heresy, were knocked down to 80,000, which made them "the smallest of the Legions Astartes."

 

So whatever numbers the VI and XV have by the start of the Heresy, at that point in time before the Heresy, they both had more than 80k.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything I've heard is that the Wolves and Sons were equal strength, and that the numbers presented in A Thousand Sons were going to be retconned into being larger since the Salamanders are directly stated to be the smallest Legion and numbering quite a bit more than ten thousand. At least 40,000 IIRC.

"These figures would tally with commonly held estimates of a total active strength for the Salamanders Legion at the end of the Great Crusade of approximately 89,000 Legiones Astartes, placing them as among the smallest overall of the Legions in manpower." p 121, Massacre

 

Among the smallest, not the smallest. Though 40,000 would still be acceptable, that said.

 

And I guess, now that I am reading that quote again, that there actually has been an additional retcon of Legion numbers. Before, 10k was the average size. Then, 100k was. Now, 100k is considered small, with a Legion that is nearly that considered to be among the smallest.

 

Edit: Though interestingly, they kept the original figure of total Salamander survivors multiplied by a factor of ten (7k rather than 700), so it isn't as much a retcon and more a shift of averages.

 

 

Ah. Still, if "among the smallest" is 89,000, then 10,000 must be minuscule. So that would seem to go along with this post by A D-B.

 

 

Cheers guys this makes it a little bit more reasonable than I imagined, I really had the impression that they were down to the last few gunslingers. This would make more sense I'd kind of forgotten how clever they are and also that they did'nt degenerate like the EC, WB, WE and DG. Thanks for clearing that up.

Basically, take any numbers in any Horus Heresy novel before The First Heretic, (and Prospero Burns, which was written before TFH) and times the numbers by 10. Remember as well that a lot of the Thousand Sons weren't on Prospero at the time.

 

tl;dr -- Thousands and thousands.

 

 

 

 

Looks like there was a statement that outright states a Legion was the smallest. The Raven Guard, after the battle that saw the split between Horus and Corax before the Heresy, were knocked down to 80,000, which made them "the smallest of the Legions Astartes."

 

So whatever numbers the VI and XV have by the start of the Heresy, at that point in time before the Heresy, they both had more than 80k.

 

 

Yep. It would seem so. Going byn the talks on the First Expedition, the wind seems to be blowing in that there will still be one thousand survivors of Prospero, but there will be an effort put into showing that there were various Expedition Fleets and garrisons spread throughout the Crusade. After all, if the Word Bearers got reprimanded for being slow, then it'd be obscene if an entire Legion took the bench.

[Visitor13]

 

That's because they're the best Legion. Duh.

 

Pardon me, sir. The Warmaster and his Legion would like a word with you.  

 

The Warmaster and his Legion are welcome to utter this word in our guestroom. Yes, it's the one with all the Phosphex.