Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Is it worth the points? What are peoples opinions of this? Please feel free to share good and bad experiences and examples of when/when not to use. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 No it is not worth the points. The gains are bad most of the time , taking multiple costs too much and if someone wants a filler a combi weapon is less random . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 When the book came out I was throwing it on everyone that could take it. Sometimes it helped, but more often than not I'd get Shred on a guy that already had Lightning Claws or something equally redundant. Then I read a bunch of stuff here on the B&C, realised I was basically wasting 50 points and picked up a third Rhino and a combi-plas instead. Much more effective. Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Thanks guys. @Dragonlover - as a first time player I was doing the same myself in my lists but after posting a list on here and reading a lot as you did (particular thanks to the jeske whose advice has been invaluable) I am beginning to see that it's a waste. Was just wondering if anyone rated it still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It's not the gift's fault, it's the boon table's fault. Most of the time even rolling on the boon table from the "champion of chaos" BS doesn't do anything either... Oh, so I got stubborn on my fearless dude, I got +1BS on a bolter, I got fleet on a unit champion, I got adamantium will against no psykers, my lord got turned into a DP, or worse a spawn...and so on... It's crap when the "best" result on the table removes all the gear that you bought for your lord and makes him worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 When I have to roll on the table I simply consider it a bonus, at best a fluffy addition. 10 points for Gift of Mutation is a steep price which adds little benefit to a character as it is. It is random, it is expensive, it is more often than not useless and it is a luxury in our codex for we struggle for every point in an army already low on valid units. Sure you can use it from time to time, but I have found a combiweapon a much better investment on an aspiring champion. On Lord and Sorcerers it is even less of an investment for 10 points here and there quickly amass in an extra Spawn or in an extra plasma gun, both options much better for the army as a whole. In short, not worth it. Sadly... for I love the concept of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Is it 'worth' the points? No, not really. But I take it anyway half the time if I have the extra points for it anyway, and its pretty much a must have for me on Possessed Champions. Its not worth it, but its fun and can potentially be pretty handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskpking Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 If i have the spare points ill throw 1 on an hq. Probably not the most efficient use of pts tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I never take it on a champion, but I never leave home without it on my Chaos Lord and/or Daemon Prince. Most of the time you won't get anything worth the points, but when you do, it will be something that's easily worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I never take it on a champion, but I never leave home without it on my Chaos Lord and/or Daemon Prince. Most of the time you won't get anything worth the points, but when you do, it will be something that's easily worth it. Same here. In one game I got the Multiple Boon for my Daemon Prince and I got three extra Boons: +1 Sv (3+ to 2+), +1 Attack (6, so 7 on charge), and Stubborn (meh). That one Gift of Mutation gave him a huge edge, so I'd say it's worth it for a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince. People will have their opinions, but I think it's points well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Got a quit a few times a Multiple boon on my Juggerlord, with stuffs ranging from EW,+1S to +1save, +1T and ID on melee. Some times just had Stubborn or +1S on a ranged weapon. Got one time Witch-Eater on teh Lord and Adamentium Will on the Champ, VS a Screamstar deamon player with lots and lots of Psy powers, was funny to see a Tzeentch Herald instakilled by Witch eater( its makes a S6 AP2 hit on the Psyker you Denied its power). If i had to make a stat for it, i'd say that 65% of the time i get something usefull, or at least nice, even got Shrouded on my Bike squad... And when i get EW or +1T on Khârn, damn i go nuts!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Always on my HQ, and I usually take two on my Possessed Champ. I mean, if I'm spending the points on Possessed I don't really care are being competitive, so I might as well buy two gifts for the champ just for fun. :) I would say I have got something useful maybe 20% of the time (played a game yesterday and got to roll in total 6 times, got "No reward" 5 times, which is standard for me). However, the times you get something useful, it can change the game. Bikes+Lord with Shrouded was fun, as was my T6 flying Daemon Prince for example. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm. Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 First off GoM is wasted points. Too random and those 10pts are better invested as others have said. Secondly, you cannot give it to a demon prince as they don't have the champion of chaos rule. So it really is wasted points there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 First off GoM is wasted points. Too random and those 10pts are better invested as others have said. Secondly, you cannot give it to a demon prince as they don't have the champion of chaos rule. So it really is wasted points there. You can give it to a DP, the rule for the Gift of Mutation doesn't require you to have the Champion of Chaos rule, and Daemon Princes have access to Chaos Rewards, so they can purchase it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Perhaps they should just have given Characters and Independent Characters a free roll on the chart before deployment instead? Don't Chosen in WHFB receive a free roll on the Eye of the Gods table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 It's fine on a Lord, Prince or Sorcerer, assuming you have already spent a lot of points on them and if you can spare 10 points. I dare to say it's almost good. Yes it's random, but sometimes those 10 points make your expensive HQ('s) so much better than it's the good kind of random. Basicly it's a small investment with a high potential benefit. A few things are literally amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Is it worth the points? What are peoples opinions of this? Please feel free to share good and bad experiences and examples of when/when not to use. Thanks I am late to the party but figured I would throw in my two cents. Much like Zhukov I have a ton of respect for Gift of Mutation, basically on a 2+ you are getting something. Most of the time it will be kinda mild, either not very helpful to something you may already have so a wasted 10pts, then you have those games where it is decently helpful and well worth the 10pts, then you have those games where it just explodes and literally wins you the game. Here are a few examples where it has won me tournament games. Playing against O'vesa Star a month ago and on the top table. I roll for my Lord and Sorcerer (I always do Sorcerer first) and I get shred for Sorcerer and his force axe. . . Pretty sweet vs an army of MCs that I can Instant Death, then I roll for my Lord and get Instant Death on melee attacks. Game. He knew it, I knew it, everyone standing around knew it. My last RTT on the top table vs Wave Serpent Spam list and my Chaos Lord (Crimson Slaughter) rolled up to reroll failed armor saves, giving him a 2+ rerollable armor vs a list that has very little AP2. These are just a couple of examples out of many. Most of the time you will get something mild, but every so often you get something game breaking. 10pts for your ICs is well well worth it. Now not sure how you were spending 50pts on them unless you were getting them for your champions and such, but that indeed is pointless. Get them on all of your ICs and move on with your life. First off GoM is wasted points. Too random and those 10pts are better invested as others have said. Secondly, you cannot give it to a demon prince as they don't have the champion of chaos rule. So it really is wasted points there. Hate to say it and not trying to be rude, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Princes can certainly take it, it is very random, half the time you get something useful which makes up for its points as is (especially on a Prince who has no USRs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Thanks Smurfalypse and everyone else who contributed. I was putting it on champions too, but I like what you're saying about just IC's. And everyone else input that has not written it off completely. It's a nice concept. I think that's question answered. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm. Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You're right I don't know what I'm talking about. GoM is a chaos reward and a prince can take it. But my previous assertion stands, too random to be a good use of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You're right I don't know what I'm talking about. GoM is a chaos reward and a prince can take it. But my previous assertion stands, too random to be a good use of points. You should try it out over the course of 10 games and see how it works, I really have had it win me games and the 20pts I spend on it per game have never changed the outcome. I mean you are right, there are going to be games when it is a blank, there will however also be games when it is game altering and that is the point, low risk, high reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm. Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have miserable luck with dice so I try to minimise any reliance on chance.. Anyways I have a sort of follow on question. Since you can give a prince GoM as a chaos reward why can you not roll on the boon table when they wreck face in game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have miserable luck with dice so I try to minimise any reliance on chance.. Anyways I have a sort of follow on question. Since you can give a prince GoM as a chaos reward why can you not roll on the boon table when they wreck face in game? Because the "Champion of Chaos" rule is what says you much accept or offer a challenge and when you kill any character you roll on the Boon Table, the Daemon Prince does not have that rule, but he has access to the wargear section that allows you to take Gift of Mutation. **Edit** Adding this on cause it happened to me just a few months ago. I do not use Princes all that often and in the middle of a game my Prince killed a character and so out of habit I rolled on the Boon Table and he turned into a Prince again, but losing all his wargear. It dawned on my again after the game that I do not have to roll for him since he does not have the Champion of Chaos special rule :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have miserable luck with dice so I try to minimise any reliance on chance.. Anyways I have a sort of follow on question. Since you can give a prince GoM as a chaos reward why can you not roll on the boon table when they wreck face in game? I can dig not wanting to test the waters on a random roll, but with Gift of Mutation you cannot roll up Spawn or Daemon Prince so you are relatively safe. The single worst thing that can happen is you get nothing, the best thing is you get something that can be game breaking :P Though, it does require a bit of luck to work but at least there is no real downside other than the loss of 10pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yup like having your JuggerAxelord gain Multiple boons with EW and ID, when you play VS a Nid player who plays the Swarmlord, the face of the guy, PRICELESS!!! Of course it did happen only once for now, but each time i play against him he is like" okay what are you gonna roll today?", he has become a little paranoiac, and thats funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yup like having your JuggerAxelord gain Multiple boons with EW and ID, when you play VS a Nid player who plays the Swarmlord, the face of the guy, PRICELESS!!! Of course it did happen only once for now, but each time i play against him he is like" okay what are you gonna roll today?", he has become a little paranoiac, and thats funny. That is 100% not cool on a JuggyAxeLord! <3 lol Some people that I have gone off on with Gift are like that as well now. I always get comments and they watch my dice roll in fear every time, well well worth the 20pts between my Lord and Sorcerer :P Think I want to start an ongoing thread of things your opponent says when you roll for Gift of Mutation and people can keep adding too it, cause we cant be alone in this (much like the "Today Khârn Killed" thread on the Khorne thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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