the jeske Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 If I could I would force the winners of challanges against csm dudes to roll on the boon table too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3646115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I have miserable luck with dice so I try to minimise any reliance on chance.. Anyways I have a sort of follow on question. Since you can give a prince GoM as a chaos reward why can you not roll on the boon table when they wreck face in game? Hate to break to you, and it might be a shock, so get prepared... WH40K is solely BASED ON LUCK, the moment you need to throw dices for every darn thing you do. Its the most random thing in the whole univers. The only thing that isn't random and doesn't need dices to do (for now!) its your army list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3646575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 No, 40k is based on probability. Saying it's solely based on luck is either playing Captain Obvious or having a too limited view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3646726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Well....in 6th edition its about who can chuck the most dice (Tau) and who can re-chuck many of the ones that didnt chuck so well in the first place (Eldar / Daemons) so yeah. In a way you can probably look at it that their rules allow them the improve their luck through probability? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3646810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 No, 40k is based on probability. Saying it's solely based on luck is either playing Captain Obvious or having a too limited view. The instant I can win a small skirmish game due to making 6 out of 9 FNP saves while failing to hit with over half of my assault cannon shots over 7 turns of shooting is the time probability ceases to apply. True having better chances via higher stats and re-rolls help, but someone will always have that moment when they roll hot, and moments when the dice roll nothing but ones. Probability only applies if you look at playing hundreds of game. There is a reason that the act of rolling well on vehicle cover saves is now named after me in my area. Then again I almost always roll well for saves. I will say this thread has given me some food for thought since I do plan on buying and modeling a Khorne jugger lord, probably with an axe, and maybe a sword. Still trying to decide on that, also gives me a reason to maybe actually get a prince as well. Oh my Templar are so not going to be happy with me this summer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3646844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm. Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Okay last 50 games I have not gotten first turn. Nor been able to seize initiative. And consequently gone on to lose. So for now I'm just building and painting. Waiting for the stars to align.... heh heh.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3647756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Okay last 50 games I have not gotten first turn. Nor been able to seize initiative. And consequently gone on to lose. So for now I'm just building and painting. Waiting for the stars to align.... heh heh.. That's a shame cause going second is a massive advantage in 40k currently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I said something incredibly dumb and edited it before anybody has seen it, hopefully. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I said something incredibly dumb and edited it before anybody has seen it, hopefully. Don't be ashamed of who you are Zhukov :P What did you say??? I want to know I am not the only dumb one here damnit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 My lips are sealed Zhukov. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Tonight I only used gift on my lord and my possessed champ, lord rolled multiple boons and ended up with T5 and 2+ save possessed champ got an extra wound. They were in the same unit and had my game gone to plan might have threatened, however since everything ended up arriving in front of his gunline eldar one unit at a time playing hammer and anvil... The lord soaked an awful lot of damage, but the combined weight of two falcons a fire prism and a serpent, plus full ten man guardians and avengers I was screwed. One inch failed charge left them stranded in the open. Best result yet on gift though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 such idiocy, luck does not exist people, grow up. your anecdotal evidence is hardly scientific Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I put Gift of Mutation on every champion...even cultist leaders. Why? Because there will come a day when a cultist wins a challenge and turns into a daemon prince and I want to see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 You don't need GoM to roll when you win a duel, you allready do this because of the Champion of Chaos rule. GoM give a roll before the game on the Boons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrified Templar Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 such idiocy, luck does not exist people, grow up. your anecdotal evidence is hardly scientific Cold doesn't exist either, it's just a lack of heat but there is no such thing as 'cold' but when there is a lack of heat we say it's cold. Probability says that out of 10 FnP rolls you'll make what? Maybe 3? But then what if you make 7? We say he got lucky. Sure luck may not exist but when someone beats the odds like making 7/10 FnP rolls when probability says it should only be 3/10 we call it luck. EDIT: Not trying to be rude but I am just trying to say that we all use terms like 'luck' or 'cold' and there is no need to say that it's idiocy to use those terms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 such idiocy, luck does not exist people, grow up. your anecdotal evidence is hardly scientific Cold doesn't exist either, it's just a lack of heat but there is no such thing as 'cold' but when there is a lack of heat we say it's cold. Probability says that out of 10 FnP rolls you'll make what? Maybe 3? But then what if you make 7? We say he got lucky. Sure luck may not exist but when someone beats the odds like making 7/10 FnP rolls when probability says it should only be 3/10 we call it luck. your attempt at science is bad. Cold, is not a scientific term, trying to cram it into a scientific "internet tought guy" point was your first mistake. so no just no, go away now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3648988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Alright, gents. Tone it down, and back it up to the topic at hand, shall we? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 If I could I would force the winners of challanges against csm dudes to roll on the boon table too. Teehee. Love it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Well since you can't be turned to spawn or DP by GoM it should be pretty good. Problem is it does nothing too many times. One sixth of the table is plain nothing, and there are lots of boons that add/do nothing or are situational at best. On the other hand, the good rolls can really throw off your opponent. What I would love to see is a table with big brutal bonuses that would really show why chaos is so tempting. A table that would make even the possibility of winning the challenge a terrifying prospect. "He can get what if he wins the challenge? + 3T? Nope not accepting that. Nope. Noooooooope. " Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 GoM might not make a cultist a daemon prince or a lord a spawn, but as others have said it is 10 points for a chance at a nice upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 @Smurfalypse: Wasn't that bad tbh, I misread what you said due to reading with the speed of light and instantly replied with a question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 the thing is, 10 points is the price of a nice upgrade. Paying that for 'a chance' at a nice upgrade is more than a bit off, especially when the chance of something useful is usually less than 50%. Honestly, it could have been a 5 point upgrade, or even free on our characters, given how much of a disadvantage the challenge thing usually is, and it still wouldn't be amazing. I would take it, if only for thematics, but I usually don't have spare points. Nearly everything in our army feels more expensive than it should be, so instead of having 20 or 30 points spare, I'm usually left trying to shave 70 points or so out of my lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 the thing is, 10 points is the price of a nice upgrade. Paying that for 'a chance' at a nice upgrade is more than a bit off, especially when the chance of something useful is usually less than 50%. Honestly, it could have been a 5 point upgrade, or even free on our characters, given how much of a disadvantage the challenge thing usually is, and it still wouldn't be amazing. I would take it, if only for thematics, but I usually don't have spare points. Nearly everything in our army feels more expensive than it should be, so instead of having 20 or 30 points spare, I'm usually left trying to shave 70 points or so out of my lists. Too right - and it's tough, because it really weakens the overall feel of a list. I'm hoping it's something that'll be corrected in future... I don't want us to be cheaper - but rather comparable to our loyalist counterparts. Paying per extra spike seems excessive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@l!ce Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 GoM might not make a cultist a daemon prince or a lord a spawn, but as others have said it is 10 points for a chance at a nice upgrade. Not to be rude, 11CDM, but you can't actually take GoM on a Cultist Champion, as per the book rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrified Templar Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Sorry bout that noctus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/2/#findComment-3649746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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