Tenebris Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 It is exactly that, 10 points for a random event which can or cannot upgrade your already costly character. I agree with RapatoR, the upgrade should be significant, a D6 table, with a very powerful boon when you roll on it which would incentivate the chaos players to actually tool our characters for duels and seek to fight them whenever it is possible, practicable or simply by narrative. The two extremes should be spawn and prince with the middle boons one for each of the chaos gods. This will also incentivate our adversaries to shun duels and hope to kill our characters asap before they get a chance to impale someone or something on their power weapons. But as it is, a roll on the boon table is scarcely worth 10 points. Sure one can get some nice results but the majority of the events is rather lacklustre to justify the cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sorry bout that noctus. We all have our moments. Honestly, I'm more disappointed in daboarder, I expect better behavior from our more veteran members. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 GoM might not make a cultist a daemon prince or a lord a spawn, but as others have said it is 10 points for a chance at a nice upgrade.Not to be rude, 11CDM, but you can't actually take GoM on a Cultist Champion, as per the book rules. No? I was pretty sure it was there in the cultist entry. The champ cannot take it from the war gear list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sorry bout that noctus. We all have our moments. Honestly, I'm more disappointed in daboarder, I expect better behavior from our more veteran members. been a stress full week, you have my apologies also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 GoM might not make a cultist a daemon prince or a lord a spawn, but as others have said it is 10 points for a chance at a nice upgrade.Not to be rude, 11CDM, but you can't actually take GoM on a Cultist Champion, as per the book rules. No? I was pretty sure it was there in the cultist entry. The champ cannot take it from the war gear list. He is a champion of chaos but the only upgrade option he has is to take a shotgun. Well, that and to be turned into a zombie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sorry bout that noctus. We all have our moments. Honestly, I'm more disappointed in daboarder, I expect better behavior from our more veteran members. been a stress full week, you have my apologies also. Thank you, sir. Now let us move on like amicable adults, shall we? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Most times I've tried it doesn't help, only worth it on models with more then one wound as that means something like eternal warrior is usefull Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3650620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Its the fact that 1/3 rolls are useless. the first roll of a 1 is nothing, a 2 spawns you. Cruel and unneccessary. Either get rid of spawndom, or get rid of the unworthy result. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Xenith, that's base hyperbole. Spawndom only occurs on a 21 or 22; the real rewards kick off on 23. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Don't forget the two other spawn rolls, 65 & 66... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Don't forget the two other spawn rolls, 65 & 66... Not if your cultist or Aspiring Champion gets it. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Don't forget the two other spawn rolls, 65 & 66... Not if your cultist or Aspiring Champion gets it. Like they'd ever win a challenge... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 My Champions win challenges all the time, but that's because I actually put points into them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hezirah Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 What do you buy for them that makes them win all the time? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 there is nothing we can buy our champions that give them better than Mutually assured destruction odds agains anything baring IG sergeants and tau.....thats woeful Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. That is precisely what I take. Mark of Slaanesh is a standard on my Chaos Marine squads and I always fork over the points for a lightning claw. Its just worth it if you can use it. It doesn't win every time, sure I mean if I get stuck up against any kind of HQ choice (which I can atleast strike simo with and get a wound on if I'm lucky) but any other kind of marine bar terminators is a joke in combat and 3 attack charges on I5 works fairly reliably for the rest of the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I play 1KSons... My Aspiring sorcerers are actually pretty good in challenges... 4++ and a Force Axe... The problem is... I don't want to accept a challenge... My Sorcerer isn't a combat monster... He is important to my Rubrics functioning correctly. Dying, spawning, or turning into a DP is pretty bad... and my Aspiring Sorcerer costs a lot more than an Aspiring Champion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. That is precisely what I take. Mark of Slaanesh is a standard on my Chaos Marine squads and I always fork over the points for a lightning claw. Its just worth it if you can use it. It doesn't win every time, sure I mean if I get stuck up against any kind of HQ choice (which I can atleast strike simo with and get a wound on if I'm lucky) but any other kind of marine bar terminators is a joke in combat and 3 attack charges on I5 works fairly reliably for the rest of the squad. Wait but that either requires you to run csm in troops or make bikers take MoS and then your lord is not a MoN roll. A chance to win challanges against sgt class meq without I upgrades ,seems not a very trade, considering you have to take high cost troops or weaker lord to run them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3651995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Oh no, Chaos Space Marines as troops and a Chaos Lord that isn't Mark of Nurgle! Sorry, had to poke at you for it. Yeah, I almost always upgrade my Troop choices (save cultists of course) as I generally have a focus on keeping my troops flexible and useful at all times. I'm not a fan of shoving the cheapest worthless squads into my troop slot just so I can tool out on as many not troops as possible. That's simply not my style and I follow the belief that my troops are the core of my army and it will stay that way. Its obviously not the absolute most effective thing, but it works for me a pretty reliably. As for a Chaos Lord? Uhhh yeah, I don't know what to tell you but I almost never take the Mark of Nurgle on them save when I'm using a palanquin Lord for funsies with the Crimson Slaughter dex. Usually my HQ choices is filled with special characters, Unmarked sorcerers with ML 3 Telepathy, Daemon Princes, or wacky deathstar lords to butcher through swathes of Marines and Guard at a time. Like a lord on a steed of Slaanesh with an outflanking squad of bikers. That is an extremely fun thing to hurl at a Tau line hunkered behind an aegis defense line. Or a Lord with a disc of tzeentch and shiverspine blade. Tried that once, no regrets when I could happily sail across the board and gut entire heavy weapon teams like they were paper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3652040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Don't forget the two other spawn rolls, 65 & 66... Not if your cultist or Aspiring Champion gets it. Like they'd ever win a challenge... It's unlikely I know... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3652127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. Good yes, but as aforementioned - doesn't really help myself who plays Death Guard, or anyone else who plays a Legion unaligned/undivided. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3652129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. Good yes, but as aforementioned - doesn't really help myself who plays Death Guard, or anyone else who plays a Legion unaligned/undivided. I'm going to be honest and admit I have no pity for anyone who plays a Chaos army that does not use the gifts of the Gods. Using the antiquated guidelines from an ancient retconned codex over a decade old is simply crippling yourself and your experience. I'd also add its a rather narrow and skewed perception of the fluff, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3652135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. Good yes, but as aforementioned - doesn't really help myself who plays Death Guard, or anyone else who plays a Legion unaligned/undivided. I'm going to be honest and admit I have no pity for anyone who plays a Chaos army that does not use the gifts of the Gods. Using the antiquated guidelines from an ancient retconned codex over a decade old is simply crippling yourself and your experience. I'd also add its a rather narrow and skewed perception of the fluff, but that's just my opinion. Perhaps it years - but after eighteen years of playing Death Guard, it just seems odd to ditch that, no? I have armies for all the God's legions, in addition to my Iron Warriors, and it just seems strange on a fundamental level to simply decry that an entire Legion simply wouldn't work on the basis of it's alignment to a God. Especially, as all the loyalist counterparts can function well independently - we should be able to also. I don't think it's necessarily narrow or skewed - but could perhaps accept traditional. I can understand within say Black Legion armies, maybe Word Bearers or Crimson Slaughter - but it just seems strange to suddenly suggest that I should start taking my enemies to battle with me. It's a Legion, nor a warband. The Codex is itself crippling: my choice of models thereafter is so pitifully limited that I realistically have to play for a draw, at best, most of the time. Suddenly mixing and matching Slaaneshi champions won't suddenly make up for the fact I really need to take specific units to actually make a game of it. But obviously I should tear up an entire Legion that should be able to function competitively as an autonomous cohort and pack that all in for something probably just as mediocre, less fluffy and for the chance I may well kill an opposing Champion, get a roll on a boon table and become a spawn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3652157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Mark of Slaanesh and a power sword or lightning claw? Then you can kill Marine sergeants fairly easily. Good yes, but as aforementioned - doesn't really help myself who plays Death Guard, or anyone else who plays a Legion unaligned/undivided. I'm going to be honest and admit I have no pity for anyone who plays a Chaos army that does not use the gifts of the Gods. Using the antiquated guidelines from an ancient retconned codex over a decade old is simply crippling yourself and your experience. I'd also add its a rather narrow and skewed perception of the fluff, but that's just my opinion. So I take it you consider those who play single chapter, craftworld or hivefleet armies to be crippling themselves? I'm sorry but it is the Thousand sons fluff and background, the tragedy of their fall and the rubric, the egyptian/mesopotamian elements, that I want to play. Yes I use a unit of noise marines, and again it is the fluff/insainity of their paint scheme that I like, fluffwise they are a squad hired as mercinaries by the Sorcerers, so whilst I do use non Thousand son units, the core of the army it the sons of Magnus. Yes not everyone wants to play mono legions, but not everyone wants to play space pirates who think capturing a light cruiser is a big achievement either, some like to mix the two ideas,or twist them into their own. It's like ice cream, everyone likes different flavors, and some can be mixed and others don't go well together that well, it just sucks for us that over half the flavors in the chaos ice cream store got laced with salt and laxatives. It is the sheer amount of unworthy offering that makes the table unwelcome and a poor choice compared to say a combi bolter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289104-gift-of-mutation/page/3/#findComment-3652166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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