Developing Chapter character and beliefs.

[Ekim_Trub]

Hey guys, having worked my own Chapter's background on and off for a few year now, I find myself constantly coming undone by the same thing- giving the Chapter character (or a theme).

So, any tips on how to thread Character/theme through a whole IA without it being overbearing or cheesy would be greatly appreciated.

[That Guy Matt]

It's a tough line to walk.  Personally I believe less is more.  I think a DIY Chapter thats largely codex adherrent (or even totally codex adherrent) with one or two little tweaks is more interesting then a Chapter that has completely unique organisation, unit types, ranks etc.

 

Also, be part of the world, don't try to take it over.  What I mean is your Chapter didn't board Abaddon's ship during the 13th Black Crusade and kick his ass, for example.  Be heroic of course but don't overdo it.

 

It's not much but I hope it helps a little.

[Olis]

It seems that this is a common stumbling block for many Fraters. I'll do a short write up, see if it helps.

Doing a theme, not overdoing a theme

First things first, you must recognise the initial theme that GW has given the adeptus astartes. They are warrior monks, essentially. Hence wording such as 'fortress-monastery', 'brother' and 'chaplain'. You could add to the idea and emphasise perhaps their religious aspects but because it's already part of them, going down this route can skirt dangerously close into simply overdoing the theme they already have.

With such a heavy sci-fi slant on things it might be easy to forget that these post-human warriors can be just as suspicious as the regular human populace on subjects such as psykers and Chaos. These warriors are taught to be ignorant of dangerous ideas, or at least not to entertain them. So this needs to be kept in mind when thinking of an idea for your chapter - would they entertain such a notion?

So, themes in general. Think of them as flavours you can give your chapter, like adding spices and herbs to a dish when you cook something. Adding a little in can works wonders, in fact just a touch of something different can change the aspects of a chapter entirely. However, you must think of a plausible way of why things are different with your chapter than the rest of the pack. Is it their homeworld that has affected things? Could it be many centuries of isolation? Perhaps it's something far more mundane like the practices having evolved in the face of adversity. Who knows?

For example: It's all well and good focusing on a knightly theme (perhaps because Imperial Fist gene-seed appeals to you) but it's another thing entirely when the chapter completely replaces it's nomenclature in favour of 'knightly' sounding words. (Also to bear in mind - knightly stuff is touched upon in varying degrees with official chapters, so that's something else that can be overdone easily.)

I suppose another example to be made on the subject of overtheming is the fifth edition Space Wolves codex. LOTS of 'wolf' this and 'wolf' that - to the point where it was a joke amongst many of the community. Try not to do this. Try to keep your chapter on the slightly plainer side of things - I know it sounds boring but it helps with the plausibility angle, trust me.

If you would like any more direct tips or help, then posting up what you have might be good. It'll at least allow the community to see your thought processes and ideas. :)

[Ekim_Trub]

Thanks guys. I have found myself going round in circles for a while now with my IA, but I will post up what I have later on today along with my thoughts and visions for them.

[Ace Debonair]

To continue the cooking metaphor, and still thinking of themes as herbs and spices, I've found over the years that sometimes variety is a marvellous thing.

Sometimes it's better to add a pinch of two different herbs than to tip half a basket of sage over the top of the meal!

Purely for example, Instead of making a purely and blatantly ancient-japan inspired Chapter (a frequent cause for over-theming), blend it with influences from a bunch of things, like maybe the Aztecs, or the Wild West, or the fall of the Roman empire, or Napoleon-era-France, or even the legends of Camelot and the quest for the Holy Grail.

Heck, maybe blend the whole lot! There aren't many original ideas left, but there's plenty of original combinations.

There isn't a hard and fast rule saying 'more influences are better', of course, but having a couple of influences to draw on might be useful if you're not sure how to really personalize an aspect of your Chapter.

The other useful thing, subtlety, has already been more than adequately covered by Olisredan. Sometimes the two go very much hand-in-hand - using a couple of themes can allow you to downplay the more blatant aspects of both.

[Conn Eremon]

It is important to note that everyone has different standards on the level of subtlety required or at which point something becomes over-themed. The Liber, while accommodating, has in general pretty high standards (and feel free to apply the 'groups are more intelligent than their smartest member' theory here) and will likely provide support that leans towards those high standards.

 

But the most important standards to an IA are those set by its author and creator. So it is important that you come to grips with your own standards. Play with that blurry line until it becomes more defined, and then build something on the right side of that line, no matter where that line is. Want a Missing Legion of white armored Marines led by a black armored lord wielding a red power sword? Go for it, whatever our cringes at the thought of it. Want a Chapter that is subtly based off of a wide range of folklore? Try picking ones completely foreign to you, and grab something small and minor from each one. Having low standards is not lore breaking. GW itself has lower standards than the worst of Liber's offenders, and the original purpose for the Missing Legions was for them to be used as DIYs.

 

So it is important to remember that those aiding you have their own standards and that you don't have to hold to them if you don't desire to match them, whether high or lower. Maybe you chose a wide range of Croatian folklore, and someone from Croatia comments about how blatant and overthemed it is. To him, it might be like making a Disney Chapter. So long as it fits your standards of subtlety, that is fine.

 

Most of us here in the Liber, including those who have already posted solid guides in this thread, are pretty good at determining the standards of the author on a case by case basis and tailoring their constructive criticism accordingly.

 

On a side note, clearly the word 'important' is important to me.

[Conviction]

This area was always the hardest for me (and likely most) to figure out. I had originally started my Chapter with a name and colors. Figuring out a theme for them was my third task. Most people think, "Oh I want a Dragon Chapter" and figure that is the theme. But it is a lot more in depth than that. A post I read in the Liber really helped me transform my Chapter from a name and colors to an actual Chapter.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284465-concept-a-possible-diy-idea-silly-or-not/?p=3550407

 

My Chapter went from a crusading Chapter that was essentially the Black Templars with a different name to a unique Chapter that I enjoy presenting to other gamers.

[Reyner]

To me the beliefs and characteristics are the hardest part of creating an IA, there has been some pretty decent advice so far in this thread - keep it coming people!

[Ace Debonair]

This area was always the hardest for me (and likely most) to figure out. I had originally started my Chapter with a name and colors. Figuring out a theme for them was my third task. Most people think, "Oh I want a Dragon Chapter" and figure that is the theme. But it is a lot more in depth than that. A post I read in the Liber really helped me transform my Chapter from a name and colors to an actual Chapter.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284465-concept-a-possible-diy-idea-silly-or-not/?p=3550407

My Chapter went from a crusading Chapter that was essentially the Black Templars with a different name to a unique Chapter that I enjoy presenting to other gamers.

Not gonna lie, I'm guilty of exactly that with my Steel Dragons.

Well, in their first iteration. Next time I'm gonna take my own darn advice and not just make them 'The Minotaurs only from Ancient China'.

[Conviction]

This area was always the hardest for me (and likely most) to figure out. I had originally started my Chapter with a name and colors. Figuring out a theme for them was my third task. Most people think, "Oh I want a Dragon Chapter" and figure that is the theme. But it is a lot more in depth than that. A post I read in the Liber really helped me transform my Chapter from a name and colors to an actual Chapter.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284465-concept-a-possible-diy-idea-silly-or-not/?p=3550407

My Chapter went from a crusading Chapter that was essentially the Black Templars with a different name to a unique Chapter that I enjoy presenting to other gamers.

Not gonna lie, I'm guilty of exactly that with my Steel Dragons.

Well, in their first iteration. Next time I'm gonna take my own darn advice and not just make them 'The Minotaurs only from Ancient China'.

I'm sure we are all a bit guilty of it. :)

[Ekim_Trub]

Thank you everyone. I have now posted up the basics for my Chapter, the thread is called "IA: Sable Hawks".

[Whohitjohn]

To be honest I end up doing the same, and have been going around and around in circles with my Silver Centurions IA for sometime now as well (look it up, any ideas of help would be greatly apprenticed), I just can't get my ideas to flow.

 

What I've found helps, and what Cormac says is true, while everybody's input is helpful and will help guide your redrafts if you want it to, don't break your ideas to fit someone else's. At the end of the day they are your marines if you think it's cool then it's cool.

 

Also one other thing, if something wont fit in to place, leave it and don't think about it for sometime, then go back to it, it'll drop in to place.

 

Anyway hope this blind leading the blind helps

 

WHJ

[Veteran Sergeant]

Read Codex: Space Wolves.


Don't make your Chapter anything like that.

 

Any time you find yourself trying to tie something into the name or theme of your chapter, stop, take a step back, and look at it again. The more you try to shoehorn into the setting, the more you take the audience out of the setting and break the immersion. Don't model your Chapter after the Spartans and name the Chapter Master Leonidas and have their homeworld be a bunch of city states held together by some ridiculous martial culture. 

 

Always remember that your Chapter are Space Marines in 40K first. Look at what makes Space Marines who they are, then tweak it to add your own flavor to it. But remember, your tweaks should be flavoring. They shouldn't be radically altering what it means to be a Space Marine in 40K. Well, unless you want to lose the audience. Ultimately you can write whatever makes you happy. In fact, you should do that because they're your Space Marines. But if you want useful feedback, if you want people to take an interest in their story on this forum, remember that you're sharing a universe.