Molokai Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 In half way through and am thoroughly bored with it. There's no character development, no plot twists, nothing that's grabbing my brain. I have read; Horus rising False gods Galaxy in flames Flight of the Eisenstein Fulgrim The first heretic. I have available to read next: Angel exterminatus Betrayer Would I miss much if I just left it and jumped into the next two? Does the plot thicken? Do we get to see the Gal Vorbak ? ( which I absolutely loved in the first heretic) Do the primarchs feature much in the second half? What about Erebus and kor phaeron? Any development there? Spoilers. Hit me with em. I'm really over this book. Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The book improves. Ok, huge spoilers! Word Bearers attack. Ultramarines die. I mean, really die. Ventatus rallies forces, and, with his Mechanicum buddies, kicks traitor s to death. Gulliman gets thrown into space. Word Bearers board the Honour, but Thiel (BAMF) and Gage, Empion and friends countermeasure. Gulliman gets back and pounds the Word Bearers. The Ultramarines launch a teleported assault on a shipyard, to get back the Calth Weapon Grid. Kor and Roboute fight. Kor wins. Then does classic evil monologue, and is sent running with tail better his legs. Ultramarines on the surface rally for the final defence, but the Calth Weapon Grid goes back to normal, annihilated the Word Bearers and their fleet. Not great on development for the marines, but Gulliman is now awesome, and not just a hate figure. Great action, 10/10' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 My advice would be to persevere. I really enjoyed Know No Fear but that's just me. And it's kind of essential reading before you take on Betrayer which for my money is the best book currently in the series. Before you head into that though either read the script version or listen to Butcher's Nails and Aurelian. Provides even more backdrop to it all. Angel Exterminatus was....perplexing. On the one hand, I very much enjoyed everything featuring Perturabo and the IV along with the characters comprised from the 3 shattered Legions. On the other hand however, the Emperor's Children irritated me no end. Partly due to the arc they are on but also the way they are written. Not very good at all. As for other one's you've missed out: Tales of Heresy, Age of Darkness, The Primarchs, Mark of Calth and Shadows of Treachery are collections of short stories, some of them absolute gems, like Blood Games, Savage Weapons, the Underworld War and Prince of Crows. A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns are excellent IMO (I know plenty who would disagree but to me they add a lot of character and flavour to the Legions featured) Legion is also an excellent read I'd avoid the Dark Angels duology, doesn't really advance too much and isn't the best quality of writing. Battle for the Abyss is the worst book in the series so avoid it like the plague. Fear to tread is pretty good and again is essential reading to further the story. Vulkan Lives veers between very very good and very very bad between scenes which is a shame because it had a lot of promise. Same goes for Deliverance Lost which had a lot of promise but was let down by bad execution. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherCaptainArkhan Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I personally thought Know No Fear had huge problems with pacing and point of view. The constant present-tense was jarring, not engaging, and the way the Ultramarines spoke was just confusing. They sounded like military stereotypes from the Second World War, not psychoconditioned ultra-disciplined transhumans. I don't know what Abnett was doing, he did an incredible job with Horus Rising and this was a complete howler from my point of view. I didn't feel like the Ultras had any real depth to them and Guilliman was made to look like an idiot who kept getting second guessed by the men under his command - certainly not the consummate genius capable of rapidly adapting to an unfamiliar situation that his reputation would suggest. Others disagree though so, y'know, YMMV and all that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I personally thought Know No Fear had huge problems with pacing and point of view. The constant present-tense was jarring, not engaging, and the way the Ultramarines spoke was just confusing. They sounded like military stereotypes from the Second World War, not psychoconditioned ultra-disciplined transhumans. I don't know what Abnett was doing, he did an incredible job with Horus Rising and this was a complete howler from my point of view. I didn't feel like the Ultras had any real depth to them and Guilliman was made to look like an idiot who kept getting second guessed by the men under his command - certainly not the consummate genius capable of rapidly adapting to an unfamiliar situation that his reputation would suggest. Others disagree though so, y'know, YMMV and all that. So what do psychoconditioned ultra-disciplined transhumans sound like in your opinion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Why they sound like psycoconditioned ultra-disciplined transhumans of course. What a silly question. Please don't nerd rage in this thread. Thank you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherCaptainArkhan Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Why they sound like psycoconditioned ultra-disciplined transhumans of course. What a silly question. Please don't nerd rage in this thread. Thank you. I'm assuming you meant me. I don't think expressing disbelief over how an author portrays a group of characters and their dialogue is necessarily 'nerd rage', sounds more like an unpleasant label for you to brand a statement you disagree with. The best succinct example I can think of is to compare the dialogue the Luna Wolves have in Horus Rising with that of the Ultramarines in Know No Fear. In KNF I felt the Ultramarines basically sounded like Guardsmen - cursing frequently, speaking colloquially and generally not being particularly distinct in terms of lexicon from their Imperial Army counterparts. Maybe since the Ultramarines were intended to interface with human infrastructure a lot more than other Legions (as KNF states) this is understandable, but it actually felt really jarring for me. There's a scene early in the book where an Ultramarines Sergeant cusses out one of his men that seems like it'd be more fitting in a Gaunts' Ghosts novel than one concerning Astartes. By contrast, the dialogue the Luna Wolves have in Horus Rising makes it painfully clear how different they are from regular humans - ref. any of the conversations Loken or the others have with the Remembrancers, which are stilted and awkward even after the Remembrancers are grudgingly accepted by the Wolves. The fact that Loken and the others interact with humans on such an unfamiliar basis (something the dialogue shows) really highlights just how different the Astartes really are. It's subjective, sure, but I think it suits the setting more when the Astartes are separated from the rest of humanity by their behaviour and social interaction as well as the fact of their physiology. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I actually wasn't referring to you, the other guy sounded like a smart Alec. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Also, I agree with you. The whole book so far is "jarring", as you put it. There's no real flow happening, and I just can't enjoy it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 If you like the portrayal of the XIII Legion and Guilliman or not is subjective.I really liked it. To say it's has no character development or plot twist I would consider outright wrong.It have a pretty big "plot twist" When John Grammaticus shows up But when thinking about it why are plot twists important? A story can still be great without a twist. And I would say a lot of the characters develop during the story or begin on a journey that are bound to change them forever. Guilliman will never truly be the same after Lorgar's betrayal. I loved it and cannot see how the perhaps most action packed novel in the series can be considered boring (Action packed both in terms of actual bolter-action and in terms of how much happens during 400 pages). But that's just my opinion and I can see others struggle with the novel. Everyone have their own opinion and that's good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherCaptainArkhan Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I actually wasn't referring to you, the other guy sounded like a smart Alec. My bad, I apologise for jumping down your throat! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 It took me two goes to really appreciate it. Betrayer - one, Angel Exterminatus - one, actually, all of the first five - one. Legion? three and that doesn't count the time it shouted "I'm Alpharius!" at tried to self-destruct my tablet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Have to agree with the good Brother Captain. After I read I could not believe Abnett did this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Man, I loved Know No Fear. Before it, I didn't really care about the Ultramarines, one way or another. After, they became one of my favorite Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Oddly, Know No Fear (aside from the bits with the Perpetuals) is up there with Prospero Burns as my favorite HH novels. Both audio books have been on my phone since I got them and I've lost track of how many times I've listened to both during long drives to client sites. I really enjoyed the way that the narrative voice captured the strict feel of the UM, along with the Sharpe-esque use of the world bastard. Makes me wish Abnett had gotten to write Fear to Tread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHorror Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The best thing about KNF is that it is a 30k book written in the style of Len Deightons 'Bomber'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3645997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey_j Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Know No Fear is a quality book, a very solid offering to the Heresy series as a whole. It's a very different beast from the Dan's earlier heresy works though. The focus is larger in scale and much more grandiose than his earlier books - it sort of reminds me of an opera in that sense. So I suppose, much like opera, you either love it or hate it. I personally loved it as it was really different and yet very successful in what it set out to achieve, which was a brilliant and all encompassing portrayal of the destruction of Calth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 no "nerd rage", I really just wanted to know what I'm missing. We don't have to get too deep into it, but even with psych indoctrination (which was less intrusive in 30K), do you think an Astartes, if only from a clinical perspective wouldn't know why a human would smile, or why we are attracted to one another, even if they can't feel these emotions themselves at the same intensity? I'm trying to figure out what would be so "mysterious" about humans that they wouldn't get. Either way, this is one of my top 5 favorite novels in the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Molokai, on Sunday I'll bring all the LE ones for you to read. I've got the whole series up to date. Know no fear is a long one but it's worth it not as good as betrayer or first heretic or don't shoot me scorched earth but it's good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsmacht Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I enjoyed Know No Fear a lot it is one of my favorite books. That got me interested in the Imperium Secundus(?) storyline and what made me eagerly pick up Betrayal when it came out in trade paperback. Now just need to get Unremembered Empire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Know No Fear reads to me like a 40k version of Band of Brothers or Black Hawk Down. It's just relentless war and mayhem and chaos and destruction and it grinds you down and makes you almost feel the grit and dirt and filth the Ultramarines would be caked in just trying to survive for those hours and days. I have to say that I found it very difficult to put down as the blow by blow account really sucked me in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hey Jaspcat, that would be great! I've been scouring the Internet for copies of the LE books and they're just so damn expensive. Cheers mate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 It took me two goes, but on the re-read I really enjoyed it. However, it would have been a fantastic graphic novel. That bit where it's raining Baneblades? Imagine that as a two-page spread. Dragonlover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I'll bring them Sunday, promethian sun Aurelian corax soul forge scorched earth & tallaran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Doesn't bode well for me... it's taken me a month nearly to try getting near to a third of the way through Fulgrim, just can't do it, really hate the style of characterisation :( Here's hoping for KNF :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289186-struggling-through-know-no-fear/#findComment-3646294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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