Meteoric Descent and Wound Allocation

[Warsmith Aznable]

Yesterday my Heldrake flew over a unit comprised of two Ravenwing bikers and a Librarian on a bike. I got 4 hits on the unit as I flew over them, and they all caused Wounds. My opponent declared he was allocating all of those Wounds to his Librarian so he could use an Invulnerable Save and stack it with Look Out, Sir! attempts. He was certain that he was allowed to take those Wounds anywhere he wanted to, and I was less than certain about how it was supposed to be done but pretty sure that he shouldn't just be allowed to do whatever he wanted based on his best save.

 

I suggested that we roll randomly to see who each Wound had landed on and save based on that, and he wanted to see a rule somewhere that covered this specific situation. We argued back and forth for a bit, and then he just did what he wanted to anyway. There was nobody in the LGS but us, so we couldn't get a ruling from a 3rd party.

 

The upshot was that his Librarian died and his two Ravenwing bikers lived. I was OK with the result, but not really happy with how it played out. The next time it happens I would like to be able to cite a rule or a FAQ about how to figure out who is taking the save, because one Iron Halo (or whatever) hiding in a unit shouldn't be able to cover everybody's necks when a bloody great dragon flies overhead and slashes at everyone.

 

I shot down one of the two remaining Bikers with the Hades, and then Lightning Clawed the last survivor with a Chosen Champion in the Assault Phase, so everything did work out well in the end.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well saves and Look Out, Sir! don't stack. If the Librarian was taking hits, then he should have decided if he wanted to look out sir first, if he did, then roll the look out, if successful the bikers take the wounds, or he could choose to take the wounds on the Librarian's invulnerable (can a librarian even take an invulnerable without Terminator armour?), if the invulnerable is failed, the librarian takes wounds.

 

Also, as far as I understand it, vector strike hits are put on the closest enemy to the model doing the attack, just like any other attack, so bizarrely, if you fly over a squad, RAW say the guys at the back die first, as they will end up closest to the drake when the vector strike occurs.

 

So yeah, looks like your opponent was 100% wrong in every way.

[Ammonius]

"Mixed Saves" on page 15 of the BRB is partially what you should point at while saying Lief Bearclaw's answer to your cheatyface opponent.

[Fibonacci]

Well right off from the start, according to the Mixed Saves rule the Look Out, Sir attempts are made BEFORE any saves are taken.  It sounds like he wanted to make his Iron Halo saves and then pass any failed saves to a different model.  That's a no.

 

On to the allocations ...

 

In the Shooting phase, if there is no way to tell which model is closest, you randomly allocate the wounds. (see Random Allocation on pg 15)

In the Assault phase, if there is a tie on who is closest, the player being attacked gets to decide where to put the wounds. (Allocating Wounds on page 25)

 

Your opponent is correct that there is no rule for allocating wounds from Vector Strikes since they are neither shooting nor melee attacks.  Since wounds can be handed out in two different ways there is not even a very clear RAI or precident to fall back on.  That being said, no matter which form of attak is made the wounds still apply to the closest model first.  Both random allocation and player choice happens when there is more than one model that could be considered closest.

 

Around here the only question has been whether the wounds go to the side where the drake started or from where it ends.  By local convention we start with the closest model from the drake's approach and the defending player picks on any ties.  However, by straight RAW wounds would go to the closest model from where the drake is placed at the end of it's movement.  If more than one model is closest, dice off (Most Important rule) to decide if the wounds are allocated randomly or players choice.  In either case, this is ONLY for those models that are an equal distance away.

[Brother Amarel]

DA Libbies can get an Inv Save without Termie Armour.

 

But, yes, RAW the attacks are assigned to the closest models in the target unit to where the attacking model is when the Vector Strike is declared (at the end of Movement). Any 'Look Out, Sir!' attempts are made before the save is rolled for.

[nurglez]

Vector strike wounds are figured out by random allocation, according to the faq.

 

Page 43 – Special Rules, Vector Strike.

Change the second paragraph to read “When Swooping, this

model may savage its prey. At the end of the Movement Phase,

nominate one unengaged enemy unit the model has moved

over that turn. This unit may even be an enemy Flyer. That unit

takes D3+1 hits, resolved at the model’s unmodified Strength

and AP3, using Random Allocation. Against vehicles, these hits

are resolved against the target’s side armour. No cover saves are

allowed against these hits.”

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

Vector strike wounds are figured out by random allocation, according to the faq.

 

Page 43 – Special Rules, Vector Strike.

Change the second paragraph to read “When Swooping, this

model may savage its prey. At the end of the Movement Phase,

nominate one unengaged enemy unit the model has moved

over that turn. This unit may even be an enemy Flyer. That unit

takes D3+1 hits, resolved at the model’s unmodified Strength

and AP3, using Random Allocation. Against vehicles, these hits

are resolved against the target’s side armour. No cover saves are

allowed against these hits.”

 

That is exactly the answer I needed, thank you.

[nurglez]

No worries. I hate it. Sorting out the target in a squad of 13? Hope you brought a d20.

[Dam13n]

In those situations I just let my opponent pick who dies.  Much quicker and usually earns me some sportsmanship points (which I then use up when I later instigate operation: rules-lawyer.  I can't help it... I spend far too much time in the OR...)

 

Regardless - your opponent was naughty... palming off failed Invulnerable saves onto models without the exact same save themselves is a no-no.

[Dragonlover]

No worries. I hate it. Sorting out the target in a squad of 13? Hope you brought a d20.

 

Nah, it's easy, all you need is a d6. Assuming you're up against another CSM player, 1 for Champion, 2-3 for special weapons, 4 for banner if you have one, 5-6 is just a normal guy. Sure, it's not 100% statistically accurate, but it gets you by.

 

Dragonlover

[daboarder]

 

No worries. I hate it. Sorting out the target in a squad of 13? Hope you brought a d20.

 

Nah, it's easy, all you need is a d6. Assuming you're up against another CSM player, 1 for Champion, 2-3 for special weapons, 4 for banner if you have one, 5-6 is just a normal guy. Sure, it's not 100% statistically accurate, but it gets you by.

 

Dragonlover

that is the WORST way to work that out, your giving far better odds of killing something important than an average mook

[Fibonacci]

If you have a few wounds and more than 6 models, just allocate them sequentially.

Roll a die, start counting from front to back, left to right up to the model that's wounded.  Roll the next die and start counting from the next model in line.  When you reach the end, wrap around to the first and keep counting.

[brother_contagion]

You can always roll D6s for every model, different color/size die for character/sergeants/special/heavy weapon/soldier, and roll off for who ties for highest. It doesn't take as long as you might think.

 

However:

 

 

No worries. I hate it. Sorting out the target in a squad of 13? Hope you brought a d20.

 

Nah, it's easy, all you need is a d6. Assuming you're up against another CSM player, 1 for Champion, 2-3 for special weapons, 4 for banner if you have one, 5-6 is just a normal guy. Sure, it's not 100% statistically accurate, but it gets you by.

 

Dragonlover

 

I think I'll steal this idea! Thanks Dragonlover for make my life easier! lol

[Brother Amarel]

 

Vector strike wounds are figured out by random allocation, according to the faq.

 

Page 43 – Special Rules, Vector Strike.

Change the second paragraph to read “When Swooping, this

model may savage its prey. At the end of the Movement Phase,

nominate one unengaged enemy unit the model has moved

over that turn. This unit may even be an enemy Flyer. That unit

takes D3+1 hits, resolved at the model’s unmodified Strength

and AP3, using Random Allocation. Against vehicles, these hits

are resolved against the target’s side armour. No cover saves are

allowed against these hits.”

 

a.) I should check the FAQ more often.

b.) This is a terrible solution; random allocation is the last resort.

[Spacefrisian]

Random aint that bad if a unit only contains 3 different models eg, Sergeant/ bob and captain, just assign a d3 and roll away (easy rolling and such)

[Chaeron]

Still would give a far higher chance of the Sergeant or Special dying though.

[NoLifeKing]

Random Allocation doesn't slow down the game all too much if both players agree on the way how the randomizing is played out,  also it is quite fluffy way of describing the damage of vector strike. The drake sweeps over their squad and the few tallest members of the pack loose their heads. 

[abadizzle]

Remember folks- there's always 2D6 or 3D6, etc- start from left to right w 2 wounding the farthest left model. Usually you'll be fighting squads of 10. Re-roll the 12. Easy as can be

[daboarder]

sigh, 2 D6 or multiple D6s do not have an even probability distribution, that is NOT random

[the jeske]

Whats the problem here , there is a d12 .

[Spacefrisian]

Or put numbers on bases and bring a spinner with 1 to 10 on it and let a spinner do your work instead of trying it with a dice.  eg "who will die on the wheel of no  fortune"

[boskiche]

I use two ways:

1) Random generator app on my smartphone. The fastest way if You have smaortphone :P

2) use d6. I first divide models into two or three groups of equal (or as close to equal) number of models. Roll d6 to choose which gropu is hit (1-3 the first, 4-6 the second; or 1-2 the first, 3-4 the second, 5-6 the third). Then roll d6 again to determine which model gets hit. If there are less than 6 models in the group, re-roll surplus numbers. To show on the example:

10 SM are being hit by VC. I would spilt 10 SM to 2 groups of 5. I roll which group is hit, then I roll which model is hit and 6 are re-rolled til 1-5 result is rolled.

 

I can imagine having d10, d12 or d20 used, simply re-rolling "empty" rolls. D6 is always handy though and is not dependent to the same degree to the number of models involved as d10, d12 or d20.

[totgeboren]

I do as boskiche. Divide the squad into as equal groups as possible, max 6 in each. Roll which group. Then roll which model.

It makes it really easy as say a squad of 24 ork boys including a Nob and two special weapon dudes would be Group 1; (1:Nob, 2-3: special weapons, 4-6: normal boys). Then group 2-4 just consists of just normal boys.

Roll one die for group, reroll results of 5-6. On a 1 it could be a special model, roll again. On a 2-4 is just a boy, since all the other groups consists of boys.

 

The same goes for smaller squads with more special models, like CSM squads. Just put all the special models in the first group, then you know from the first roll if a basic dude dies or if you have to roll again for the special dudes.

 

To ignore statistics makes me slightly upset. You might as well just say that everything works on a 4+ then, if statistics are not important. :nerdrage

[Sception]

I bring a set of D&D dice, and roll the smallest die that is at least as large as the squad size, re-rolling results that are greater than the number of models in the squad.