Sgt. Blank Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 A question occurred to me when I was reading about the Blade of the Relentless in the new Crimson Slaughter Codex: how will my Chaos Lord wrack up enough kills to actually power the Blade up? Because of Champion of Chaos, he appears to be required to challenge any characters he comes across, which usually means he's fighting one on one versus a sergeant or exarch or whatever. He should win most of these fights but to get the most out of the Blade, he needs to get a lot of direct assault kills relatively early in the game. Others might disagree but I read this to mean he has to inflict wounds in the Assault phase, rather than catching a defeated enemy in a Sweeping Advance. Here's the solution I came up with: Chaos Lord gets a bike and the Blade of Relentless and joins a unit of Chaos Bikers, which definitionally includes an Aspiring Champion. This gives him the speed to get close quick. They race off and assault the closest enemy unit - can the Aspiring Champion challenge the Sergeant (or equivalent)? If so the Lord cannot issue a challenge (since you can nominate only one character to fight) and is free to focus his attacks on the weaker and more plentiful rank and file guys, thus positioning him to pile up easy kills and power the blade up. Does this work? Is it fair or manipulating the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yes, that is exactly how it works. My tournament lists all run multiple characters in squads to be able to survive the Champion of Chaos special rule. Usually a Lord, Sorcerer, and Champion in the Biker Squad. Another option is to start practicing your placement of your ICs on the move before you charge. Basically instead of moving them directly in front to be the closest for the charge, actually move them back and to the outside of the unit (so they have room to consolidate 3" when their Initiative comes up). When the charge happens they will be pretty far away and probably not in range of a challenge the first turn of combat, I have been doing this for a while now and gotten pretty decent at it but it definitely takes practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yeah, there can only be one challenge per combat. Also note that if your opponent issues the challenge, you can't decline, but you can accept with whichever eligible model you like. Aspiring Champions become important as challenge-takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What the others have said, I run my Black Mace Lord next to my aspiring champion nestled in amongst 5 other bikers. When they get into combat, the champion issues/accepts a challenge and the lord is free to go about his merry business of mauling the crap out of the enemy squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Blank Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Thanks for the quick responses. I've been using a Winged Daemon Prince primarily so this hadn't come up for me. I appreciate the advice and I will have to try the charge range/consolidation tactic Smurf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 If there are multiple characters on each side of the combat can there be multiple challenges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Having the asp. Champ take the challenge will work a total of 1 time...after that he is dead and from then on your lord is stuck in challenges. Not sure how you'll end up with 10 kills from the relic that way, apart from doing it turn 4 when it doesnt matter anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Having the asp. Champ take the challenge will work a total of 1 time...after that he is dead and from then on your lord is stuck in challenges. Not sure how you'll end up with 10 kills from the relic that way, apart from doing it turn 4 when it doesnt matter anymore Dont need 10 kills, only need 3 to be really really good in CC. Str5, ap2 base is win. Then if you get two more you are str 6 base, charge with the helm and you are str7, ap2, 6A on the charge. . . Kinda win when you only have 5 kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Having the asp. Champ take the challenge will work a total of 1 time...after that he is dead and from then on your lord is stuck in challenges. Not sure how you'll end up with 10 kills from the relic that way, apart from doing it turn 4 when it doesnt matter anymore Ran a similar set up (but with Jump pack lord and Warptalons) and charged into a Guardian squad. "Warp Talons!?" Warp Talons. They don't have grenades; so attacking an enemy force in cover means they'll go last (it was against eldar, so they'd be going last anyways...but I digress) Chumpion makes the challenge, while OnlyUseMeBlade with MoK goes to town-then the rest of the Warp Talons janitor'd the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Another option would be that if you roll a 6 to hit while shooting, that you allocate it to that units leader, if it is killed before you charge in (by any chance) you wont need to challenge said unit leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Having the asp. Champ take the challenge will work a total of 1 time...after that he is dead and from then on your lord is stuck in challenges. Not sure how you'll end up with 10 kills from the relic that way, apart from doing it turn 4 when it doesnt matter anymore Ran a similar set up (but with Jump pack lord and Warptalons) and charged into a Guardian squad. "Warp Talons!?" Warp Talons. They don't have grenades; so attacking an enemy force in cover means they'll go last (it was against eldar, so they'd be going last anyways...but I digress) Chumpion makes the challenge, while OnlyUseMeBlade with MoK goes to town-then the rest of the Warp Talons janitor'd the rest. The Lord has grenades though and that passed to the unit, so they would go at normal initiative :P Though in case it did not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Having the asp. Champ take the challenge will work a total of 1 time...after that he is dead and from then on your lord is stuck in challenges. Not sure how you'll end up with 10 kills from the relic that way, apart from doing it turn 4 when it doesnt matter anymore Ran a similar set up (but with Jump pack lord and Warptalons) and charged into a Guardian squad. "Warp Talons!?" Warp Talons. They don't have grenades; so attacking an enemy force in cover means they'll go last (it was against eldar, so they'd be going last anyways...but I digress) Chumpion makes the challenge, while OnlyUseMeBlade with MoK goes to town-then the rest of the Warp Talons janitor'd the rest. The Lord has grenades though and that passed to the unit, so they would go at normal initiative Though in case it did not matter. Somewhat unrelated, but coming back to Lord with Jump pack and Warp Talons - I often run my Lord MoS and Spine Shiver Blade for a hefty 12A S4 AP3 I7 on the charge (S4 is puny but it forces a lot of saves), beat a BA guy in a challenge, rolled ID on the Boon Table and proceeded to wipe Mephiston out in a challenge. Good times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Grenades are not passed to the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What's a Spine Shiver Blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Grenades are not passed to the unit. I stand corrected :P I have also been cheated on more than a few occassions :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Its a Daemon Weapon in the Black Legion supplement. user Strength ap3 +1 initiative d6 attacks. Yeah it sucks the Grenades aren't passed on. My group allows that if a friendly unit 'shoots' a assault grenade at an enemy unit and it hits (doesn't have to kill any models) the enemy unit counts as 'fragged' and any unit assaulting it count as having assault grenades. It's "cinematic". The funny thing is precision shots with Krak grenades against Eldar (and presumably Guard...Pseudo Latin Power Rangers in Space...or whatever they're called now...) popping the Exarchs and spirit seers if I'm lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 If there are multiple characters on each side of the combat can there be multiple challenges? No If I contrive it hard enough, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Str5, ap2 base is win. Ah, the good ol' days of the Jacobus bomb when you took 6 of these at 15 points each for 30 total re-rollable atacks. If there are multiple characters on each side of the combat can there be multiple challenges? >No If I contrive it hard enough, yes! LOL I forgot about that. I guess there is an exception (or is that exploit?) for every rule after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yes, that is exactly how it works. My tournament lists all run multiple characters in squads to be able to survive the Champion of Chaos special rule. Usually a Lord, Sorcerer, and Champion in the Biker Squad. Another option is to start practicing your placement of your ICs on the move before you charge. Basically instead of moving them directly in front to be the closest for the charge, actually move them back and to the outside of the unit (so they have room to consolidate 3" when their Initiative comes up). When the charge happens they will be pretty far away and probably not in range of a challenge the first turn of combat, I have been doing this for a while now and gotten pretty decent at it but it definitely takes practice. Oh man, I am learning so many little tricks today. I never even noticed that line in the challenge rules about unengaged models being unable to accept challenges. Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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