Reclusiarch vs Leo for DC

[thepowerofwar]

As of late I have noticed that some people have been taking Reclusiarch instead of Leo for DC and I am not seeing why other than he has 1 more wound and he can be your warlord.  Leo on the other hand I feel has more pluses for taking him for DC such as, he actually counts as DC so he gets the rerolls to wound and feel no pain and furious charge, as the highest initiative in the codex, after taking a wound then on the assault's he has 8 str 8 attacks, and he has the same cost a chaplain with a jump pack.  If any one know of some other pluses for the Reclusiarch lets hear them.

[Rammael]

Death company with jump packs are soooo expensive, not worth it. Lemartes has jump pack, makes more sense to run a reclusiarch & nine guys on foot in a drop pod. Far more effective. Sorry he is a cool character but not a competitive way to run death co.

[knife&fork]

You can still put him in a raven and not give the other DC packs. 

 

I'd only do this if I was running 2 ravens, otherwise it's too much of a target.

 

8 str 8 attacks is indeed pretty nasty, too bad about that AP4.

[Sanguine_Knight]

AP 4 is a bummer but he is a beast... I would say use him if you like him. 

 

A stormraven for him and his boys is definitely recommended but I agree 2 is best

 

If you can only take one just try to take something else your opponent might want to make more of a priority. 

 

And get him on the ground asap

[Jakbal]

I agree with the earlier comment regarding cost of outfitting the Death Company with Jet Packs.  It is too much, therefore I don't use Lemartes.

[GrunTeufel]

I have yet to understand why in the name of terra he has two wounds. He is one of the most prominent members of the chapter. He must have been a reclusiarch by now.

[thepowerofwar]

So to save 20pt the trade off is a HQ slot 2 str, 3 attacks, 1 initiative, feel no pain, reroll to wound, and hammer of wrath( I for got about that one earlier). But you gain 1 BS, 1 wound and he does not count as bulky. Hmm still not seeing why to take him instead of Leo.

Note- The rest of the DC Does not need to take jump packs to take him but if they do the hammer gets reroll to wound too since the attack comes from DC

[Cronhour]

At 150 I find him a little expensive to fit into an already expensive unit, the reclusiarch can fill the required hq slot while buffing your DC, if you took lemmy you'd need another 100 plus points for an hq. Personally I tend to run my DC cheap ATM.10 bolters in a pod with 2 power weapons lemmy just isn't worth the points in my lists.

[Jakbal]

At 150 I find him a little expensive to fit into an already expensive unit, the reclusiarch can fill the required hq slot while buffing your DC, if you took lemmy you'd need another 100 plus points for an hq. Personally I tend to run my DC cheap ATM.10 bolters in a pod with 2 power weapons lemmy just isn't worth the points in my lists.

 

 

I run a 9 man DC in a rhino, 7 bolters and two thunder hammers, the 10th man is chaplain.

[Sanguine_Blood]

Lemartes is heavily flawed in 6th ed.

He is only 2 wnds. In order for him to hulk out he needs to lose one of those 2 wounds. For him to lose one of those wnds he basically has to be in the front of the DC squad in order for him to be allocated a wnd in the first place. Any enemy worth their salt is going to fire a weapon at him that will ignore his basic save and FNB, which will also most likely kill him off the get go by doubling out his T. In 5th where you could allocate a wnd sustained to him while he is in middle of DC it was better, but now in 6th? No way. And I am not going to pay 150pts to change LoS rolls on him, if he can even do that beyond a 4+ (dont have BrB handy) as he isn't an IC.

 

So yeah. On paper he IS cool, but on the table, I'll take a cheaper Reclusiarch any day.

[thepowerofwar]

 

At 150 I find him a little expensive to fit into an already expensive unit, the reclusiarch can fill the required hq slot while buffing your DC, if you took lemmy you'd need another 100 plus points for an hq. Personally I tend to run my DC cheap ATM.10 bolters in a pod with 2 power weapons lemmy just isn't worth the points in my lists.

 

 

I run a 9 man DC in a rhino, 7 bolters and two thunder hammers, the 10th man is chaplain.

Our elite slots are already too heavily congested to use on a regular chaplain imo, but with you saying that he is too costly but you are using thunder hammer and you could be using power fists for 5 pts less each.

 

Lemartes is heavily flawed in 6th ed.

He is only 2 wnds. In order for him to hulk out he needs to lose one of those 2 wounds. For him to lose one of those wnds he basically has to be in the front of the DC squad in order for him to be allocated a wnd in the first place. Any enemy worth their salt is going to fire a weapon at him that will ignore his basic save and FNB, which will also most likely kill him off the get go by doubling out his T. In 5th where you could allocate a wnd sustained to him while he is in middle of DC it was better, but now in 6th? No way. And I am not going to pay 150pts to change LoS rolls on him, if he can even do that beyond a 4+ (dont have BrB handy) as he isn't an IC.

 

So yeah. On paper he IS cool, but on the table, I'll take a cheaper Reclusiarch any day.

For you its mainly about the 20pts and you don't feel that 3+4++5+++ and a 4+ LOS would keep him alive but the Reclusiarchhas the same saves but the OS is a 2+

[knife&fork]

Lemartes is heavily flawed in 6th ed.

He is only 2 wnds. In order for him to hulk out he needs to lose one of those 2 wounds. For him to lose one of those wnds he basically has to be in the front of the DC squad in order for him to be allocated a wnd in the first place. Any enemy worth their salt is going to fire a weapon at him that will ignore his basic save and FNB, which will also most likely kill him off the get go by doubling out his T. In 5th where you could allocate a wnd sustained to him while he is in middle of DC it was better, but now in 6th? No way. And I am not going to pay 150pts to change LoS rolls on him, if he can even do that beyond a 4+ (dont have BrB handy) as he isn't an IC.

 

So yeah. On paper he IS cool, but on the table, I'll take a cheaper Reclusiarch any day.

 

You don't actually have to lose that wound, FnP-ing it counts. So while it isn't easy to suffer it in a beneficial way there still are ways. For example put him in the front only when you expect few incoming wounds, like when taking overwatch.

 

If you want to add killing power to your death company then Lemartes is a beast. Using a regular Reclusiarch means you'll put your warlord in the middle of a unit whose purpose it is to kill and die. I try to avoid giving up that VP whenever I can and BA HQs are too expensive to run in multiples. 

 

In Lemartes defense he also comes with a jump pack, fnp, and wound rerolls. Even if you disregard his WRYYYYYY!-mode. ;)

 

(He also won't count as an additional KP, or unit when calculating reserves )

[thepowerofwar]

At 150 I find him a little expensive to fit into an already expensive unit, the reclusiarch can fill the required hq slot while buffing your DC, if you took lemmy you'd need another 100 plus points for an hq. Personally I tend to run my DC cheap ATM.10 bolters in a pod with 2 power weapons lemmy just isn't worth the points in my lists.

But with the 20pts savings your putting your warlord  in an already high priority target for enemy shooting and giving an extra Kill point and VP with Slay the Warlord.   Every time my DC are not in CC they have the target priority from enemy fire to try and wipe them out so putting something more shiny target wise seems like giving VP away.

[Cronhour]

 

At 150 I find him a little expensive to fit into an already expensive unit, the reclusiarch can fill the required hq slot while buffing your DC, if you took lemmy you'd need another 100 plus points for an hq. Personally I tend to run my DC cheap ATM.10 bolters in a pod with 2 power weapons lemmy just isn't worth the points in my lists.

But with the 20pts savings your putting your warlord  in an already high priority target for enemy shooting and giving an extra Kill point and VP with Slay the Warlord.   Every time my DC are not in CC they have the target priority from enemy fire to try and wipe them out so putting something more shiny target wise seems like giving VP away.

actually i rarely do put a reclusiarch in with my dc, as i stated i run them with bolters in a drop pod, if i was running a reclusiarch i'd probably not have him as warlord as putting warlord upclose and personal early on seems like a waste without some support, I find 4 attacks on the charge at ws5 and str 5 after rapid bolter fire enough without the rerolls.

 

I would maybe throw him in there if i had them in an assault vehicle (raven or LR) Though as BA we're kind of screwed for slay the warlord as all our choices are relativly expensive and tuned for CC which is why I often throw in at least coteaz or another inquisitor to buff some devs and give access to some warlord traits or stick it on a beast like a biomancied meph in a raven, as he's likely to not die anyway and if he does I've likely got their warlord by now. I'm likely to take neither reclusiarch nor lemmy but i can see in the value in leaving lemmy out as he's a very expensive buff model your not "required" to take

[knife&fork]

Honestly the points you spend on a reclusiarch, chaplain, or lemmy are almost always better spent on more DC models. Or more powerweapons. 

[appiah4]

Chaplain with Power Fist over Reclusiarch or Lemartes any day (unless I want a Reclusiarch as an HQ anyway, in which case Reclusiarch with Power Fist over Lemartes any day).