World eaters with Angron

[Kinbirgof]

I am trying again with a list of WE. I want to make it brute force, which can get in close combat as fast as they can.

 

Rite of war: Orbital Assault

 

HQ:

Khârn 170

 

Elites:

5 veterans with power weapons 175

Drop pod 35

 

Contemptor dreadnought with to close combat weapons 175

Dreadnought drop pod 65

 

Troops:

10 tactical marines 150

Drop pod 35

 

10 tactical marines 150

Drop pod 35

 

18 tactical marines

 

Fast attack:

3 space marines jetbikes, one volkite culvarin, 3 melta bombs 160

 

Storm eagle assault gunship 210

 

Lords Of War:

Angron 400

 

Total: 2000

 

Angron and Khârn go with veterans in one drop pod. Veterans and contemptor get on the battlefield at first turn. They are here to cut everything in combat. Other drop pods will capture objectives, big squad is for the same job. Fast jetbikes are here to get rid of some tanks and light infantry/vechiles. Eagle is against aircraft, though it was taken cause of rite of war.

 

I really need to know, if this can work good. Maybe I should change something and take other units instead jetbikes and one of small tactical squads. Please help, and sorry for bad English.

[Moonstalker]

This list will not work. Period.

 

First, let's tot up your anti-tank. 3 meltabombs. A Contemptor with 2 DCCW. Angron. And the frankly pathetic Tempest Rockets on your storm eagle. Unless your local meta is just completely devoid of vehicles, you have not brought enough anti-tank.

 

Second, your strategy. Your plan is to dump Angron, Khârn, 5 power-armored marines, and a Contemptor within 12 inches of the enemy. Yes, you get nearly half of your army (points-wise) onto the table on turn one. In this case, your drop pods are only delivering your units into the range that makes it easiest for the enemy to slaughter them. You have no alpha strike to accompany this force, you've got Angron's plasma pistol, Khârn's plasma pistol, 5 bolters, one twin-linked bolter on the drop pod, and the twin-linked bolters in the Contemptor's DCCWs. Your grand plan is to kill two marines with plasma pistols and then get shot by 1980 points of army. If you want to get into melee quickly, drop pods are not the way to do it.

 

A third and more minor point is your tactical squads. You've given them nothing. Not even Vexillas. This is only minor because you're already going to lose when half your army (including your Primarch, who is only T6 and 3+ save, making him one of the more fragile primarchs) dies on turn 1. Whether your tiny tactical squads break and run off the table after that is irrelevant.

 

Fourth is value for your points. Veterans (especially with lots of wargear) are a pretty bad value. You're paying the same points per guy that you do for terminators, but all you're getting is 1 extra attack while you lose out on the 2+ armor save, twin-linked bolter, and the 4+ or 5+ invul. Between Khârn and Angron, you're spending 570 points on melee beatstick. That's like a Praetor and 10 terminators worth of points, which is the 'hammer' for a lot of armies in this style. Throw the cost of the frankly terrible Veterans on top and the dead weight of the melee Contemptor in, too, and you have no points left for the support that your hammer needs. Assuming you could get your hammer into melee in the first place, which you can't, because they are going to die on turn 1.

 

 

So, fixing this list. You want a brutal melee army that gets stuck in as quickly as possible. You want it to feature Angron. I do not think you have enough points for Khârn and Angron - you'll need a cheaper HQ that does more than just punch things. Drop Pods are death for your army, not the way you get them into melee ASAP. Getting them into melee like that requires transports, either Storm Eagles, Caestus Assault Rams, Land Raiders, or Spartans. Something with assault ramps. With that, you can be safely in melee on turn 2. I think we should start off by imagining a 1500 point list that works, and then we add Angron to it in a way that pumps the list up to 11.

 

The safest and quickest way to deliver a big melee hammer is going to be via Spartan. The Storm Eagle will be unreliable, you can't guarantee when it will come in unless you want to spend points on an ADL and the comm upgrade, or the Landing Pad and the upgrade that lets you start a flyer on it. Either way, you're going to end up spending Spartan-level points on it, and the Spartan is tougher.

 

 

Centurion

-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Power Axe/Combibolter

120

 

Legion Terminator Squad

-5 Members, 1 Chainfist, 4 Powerfists, 5 Combibolters

205

 

Apothecarion

-2 Apothecaries

90

 

Legion Tactical Squad

-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolt Pistols/Chainaxes, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Power Axe, Meltabomb

275

 

Legion Tactical Squad

-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolt Pistols/Chainaxes, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Power Axe, Meltabomb

275

 

Spartan

-Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite

340

 

Alright, that's 1305 total. 195 points left for hitting 1500, 295 + Angron for hitting 2k. You've now got 2 Meltabombs, 4 Lascannons, and a chainfist for dealing with vehicles. You can buff that up by bringing a Sicaran, a Contemptor-Mortis (recommended, since it also provides anti air) with your choice of Lascannons or Kheres Assault Cannons. Maybe some Rapier Laser Destroyers if you want. Maybe instead of exchanging the bolters for chainaxes on your tactical squads, you'll want to take bolter, bolt pistol, and chain axe. The chain axes won't really help you any more than chainswords would, but they're at least fluffy for the legion and would look cool. Unless you fight a lot of Xenos, then they're great. I would not add any more Independent Characters or more guys to the terminator squad, unless you literally can't think of anything else to put in and fill up the last bit of points with. With the Primus Medicae, Terminators, and Angron in the Spartan, you have literally over half your army (1065) in one basket. Do not add more to that basket if you can help it at all, and make 100% sure that you deliver them into a big, juicy melee target on turn 2, and that your tactical squads join them as quickly as possible.

 

If you just wanted to go absolutely all-in as soon as possible you could drop 5 marines from one tactical squad, add one to the other to bring them to 14+Apothecary and 20+Apothecary respectively, and then you would have the 340 points necessary to bring a second Spartan. You could then transport your larger tactical squad into melee directly beside your terminator squad/Angron.

 

If you want to dial back your commitment to the hammer, drop the Terminator Squad, drop the Apothecary from one tac squad, increase it to 20 guys, attach the Primus Medicae and Angron, then stick them in the Spartan. You still have a lot of points in that Spartan, but you also now have another 200 points to bring more firepower and more support for that Spartan full of rage.

[Kinbirgof]

I understood the main points. So here it is, I made several lists based on yours.

First list:

Angron 400

Centurion
-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Power Axe/Combibolter
120

Contemptor Dreadnought-mortiris with lascanons

185

Legion Terminator Squad
-5 Members, 1 Chainfist, 4 Powerfists, 5 Combibolters
205

Apothecarion
-2 Apothecaries
90

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

-2 quad mortars

120

Legion Tactical Squad
-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolters, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb
265

Legion Tactical Squad
-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolt Pistols/Chainaxes, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Power Axe, Meltabomb
275

Spartan
-Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite
340

Second list:

Angron 400

Khârn (I just love this guy!) 170

Red Buthchers

- 5 members, two power axes, Devoured have chainfist.

285

Contemptor Dreadnought-mortiris with lascanons

185

Apothecarion
-2 Apothecaries
90

Legion Tactical Squad

-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolters, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb
265

Legion Tactical Squad
-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolt Pistols/Chainaxes, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Power Axe, Meltabomb
275

Spartan
-Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite
340

Third list:

Angron 400

Centurion

-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Power Axe/Combibolter
120

Contemptor Dreadnought-mortiris with Kheres pattern cannons

180

Legion Terminator Squad
-5 Members, 1 Chainfist, 4 Powerfists, 5 Combibolters
205

Apothecarion

-2 Apothecaries
90

Legion Tactical Squad

-18 Members, Vexilla, Bolters, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb
255

Legion Tactical Squad
-19 Members, Vexilla, Bolt Pistols/Chainaxes, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Power Axe, Meltabomb
275

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron

-3 members

135

So here it is. Maybe in a second list I should take primus medicae with butchers, I don't know, how is better. Can vigilator infiltrate the spartan? Maybe I should take him. Please, help me. Thanks!

[Moonstalker]

I think the Vigilator actually could infiltrate the Spartan, but I don't see why you would.  Units that infiltrate still cannot charge on the first turn, so you're really just paying a lot of points (and giving up FNP on the squad inside) to start the Spartan out 6-12 inches closer to the enemy than it otherwise would have.

 

Red Butchers, I'm a little iffy on.  They could be good, but I'm just wary of how expensive they are each.  Their worst enemy is probably just running into a unit of enemy terminators that have power fists, because the PFs will double tough, negating the Red Butchers' wound and FNP advantage, while they hit each other on 3+'s.  These theoretical enemy terminators would also wound on 2+ while the Red Butchers wound on 3+'s with their power axes.  It would probably end in mutual annihilation, but that's good for the enemy terminators.  They are cheaper, after all.  You should also keep in mind that you've already got a lot of points sunk into your Angron/Primus Medicae/Terminator/Spartan bomb, the Red Butchers will only drive that price up.

 

I like the direction you've gone with your first list, splitting the tactical squads up to have one squad with bolters and one squad with bolt pistol/chainaxe.  I like the quad mortars, they could help you by pinning enemy infantry so you can close with them faster/more safely.  6 twin-linked lascannons is probably enough antitank that you can feel comfortable with it.  If you can find the points for it, a nuncio vox in one or both of your tactical squads could help you with keeping those quad mortars safe.

 

Edit: The other advantage to normal terminators over the Red Butchers is that the normal terminator squad is scoring.

[Kinbirgof]

Red Butchers, I'm a little iffy on. They could be good, but I'm just wary of how expensive they are each. Their worst enemy is probably just running into a unit of enemy terminators that have power fists, because the PFs will double tough, negating the Red Butchers' wound and FNP advantage, while they hit each other on 3+'s. These theoretical enemy terminators would also wound on 2+ while the Red Butchers wound on 3+'s with their power axes. It would probably end in mutual annihilation, but that's good for the enemy terminators. They are cheaper, after all. You should also keep in mind that you've already got a lot of points sunk into your Angron/Primus Medicae/Terminator/Spartan bomb, the Red Butchers will only drive that price up.

I like the direction you've gone with your first list, splitting the tactical squads up to have one squad with bolters and one squad with bolt pistol/chainaxe. I like the quad mortars, they could help you by pinning enemy infantry so you can close with them faster/more safely. 6 twin-linked lascannons is probably enough antitank that you can feel comfortable with it. If you can find the points for it, a nuncio vox in one or both of your tactical squads could help you with keeping those quad mortars safe.

Edit: The other advantage to normal terminators over the Red Butchers is that the normal terminator squad is scoring.

I thought, that is better against hordes... Besides they have more attacks, then terminators do. Well, it seems you are right.

What do ypu think about jetbikes and also Khârn? It would be interesting for me to know your opinion.

[Moonstalker]

I don't really like jetbikes, but it just might be that I don't have the mindset for using them.  My playstyle usually involves a lot of gunlining and not a lot of movement which doesn't suit jetbikes.  They should be better once the rules updates come out, they're supposed to be getting a buff to a 2+ armor save.  There are probably better people to ask about jetbikes.

 

I think Khârn is only really worth it when you specifically don't have Angron in your list so you can give Gorechild to Khârn.  With The Cutter, I think he just loses in melee to a Paragon Blade/Iron Halo/Digital Lasers Praetor.  Lack of Ap2 or even a strength bonus from The Cutter really hurts him in that regard.  However, at that point he becomes a little bit of a gamble.  You're spending 190 points on a big HQ that doesn't have Eternal Warrior and doesn't do anything to buff your army.

[Kinbirgof]

Thanks again! Last question: Should I change dreadnought for sicaran battle tank with laser sponsons?

[infyrana]

I would be tempted with keeping the Contemptor, it has an invuln save (albeit minor), and the interceptor / skyfire rules.  Personally I chose to have both in my list, but then I also have two of each for total redundancy.

 

If you are not strapped for points, for those tactical squads, I would consider keeping the bolters and adding extra CCW's so they have the best of both worlds - but if you need the points, keep them as they are :)  As long as you model them with all that's needed, I'm sure you could alter the list around to suit your mood.